Author Topic: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system  (Read 9928 times)

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BielBdeLuna

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2015, 03:06:03 PM »
well everything will come in time, at the moment the ceGUI editor is way simple, but keep in mind ceGUI has not even reached version 1.0, so this could change with time, and time is something we have.

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2015, 03:15:19 PM »
HTML/CSS would have been much better option as it's a standardized interface with good tools available.

I did some digging and there are at least 2 tools to author HTML5 (and SVG) animation:

http://tumult.com/hype/

https://www.animatron.com/tutorial

Sometimes I wonder what do FOSS programmers think when they choose obscure and raw middleware :/

BielBdeLuna

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2015, 03:28:09 PM »
there is no door closed, you can implement whatever you feel like necessary. you can have many implementations running side by side if you want. the idea here is choice.

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2015, 03:34:45 PM »
there is no door closed, you can implement whatever you feel like necessary. you can have many implementations running side by side if you want. the idea here is choice.

That's exactly why most of the FOSS projects based on any of ID Tech engine never took off - instead of getting forces together under solid plan, each dev want to have a choice of implementing useless solutions (while it's fun doing personal projects using obscure code, community would want some standardized and accessible end-user solution).

Anyway, it's pointless to argue when it comes to Doom 3 engine GPL programmers.....

BielBdeLuna

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2015, 03:44:50 PM »
the dark mod took off.

why is it pointless when there are clearly gpl programmers in doom3 engine?

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2015, 04:00:31 PM »
the dark mod took off.

why is it pointless when there are clearly gpl programmers in doom3 engine?

TheDarkMod doesn't just shove whatever each individual programmer thinks is "cool" into the engine. Also, saying TheDarkMod took off is too vague. Where did it take off? If they were to put it on Steam, maybe it would be a good measure of gauging if it really takes off or not. Right now there is a small niche that knows about it and plays it. In no way most of PC games know about it, even from hardcore audience.

If you are making some homebrew project, for your own self and your friends, by all means, put whatever you want into the engine. However, you say it's for the greater good and for indies to make games with idTech 4. That implies whatever goes into the engine has to be chosen deliberately. Such middleware / lib / code has to be stable, readable, artist-friendly (if it's for visual component). "Freedom" has nothing to do with it.

dingleberry

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2015, 04:11:04 PM »
Motorsep, all joking and trolling each other aside.

What are you doing on these forums?

Maybe you're aware of it, but almost all peoples posts you do the following:

- argue with almost every member about something trivial, being usually counter productive
- Constantly complain about idtech 4 and how it's terrible to work with
- If someone wants to discuss something you immediately grind that topic in to the ground

It's clear people in general on the forums don't enjoy having you here, so why come here? Are you bored? Is your day to day job not inspiring you and you're just frustrated and take out here? (been down that road before and it's tough to get out of that rut).

I am genuinely curious because in most small communities every person is almost always friendly, but not here and it's quite the bummer that it is not.

EDIT: My terrible english, not my main language.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 04:12:44 PM by dingleberry »

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2015, 04:27:59 PM »
Oh, hi dingleballs. I am glad to see you too!

Are you a moderator? I didn't think so..

It's been a tradition on Doom3World that a small group of a few fanboys would not let anyone with opposite point of view to voice an opinion. Well, those days are long over. I have been working with ID Tech 4 on a daily basis since 2012. I also worked with Unity and Darkplaces engine. There are people who unaware of what id Tech 4 is in reality, and the fanboys always make it sound like it's a God given gift to indie game developers. Which is simply untrue. So when someone comes up with some idea that doesn't reflect the true state of things, and no one says a thing to present the idea from a different angle, I voice my opinion from my experience in game dev. I am sick and tired of fanboys just hiding facts or misrepresenting them.

On the other note, you one of those remnants of d3w ghost.. You make it sound as if I have no right to discuss anything or worse - can't argue.

I don't have to be friendly to fit it in a small community. As a matter of fact I can't stand back patting. Small community where people are open to new people and stuff, open to a fact based argument, always beat stale community that is fake and based on patting each other on the back, and pushing away people who has different opinion about the subject. I have a feeling you miss that kind of swamp dearly  >:D

If someone comes out an slams me with facts I was not aware of, fine. I'll eat it and move on. That's what life is about, live and learn, and spread the knowledge. Btw, that's how TDM community is. While there are a few folks who love the swamp atmosphere, other guys are quite reasonable. We can arguments and misunderstandings, but we moved on.

As for something trivial, replacing GUI system in an engine is not trivial. And when some folks live under the rock and are unaware of better options, it would be wise to inform them.

I hope you satisfied your curiosity.

P.S. Note that you were the one who led to the off-topic discussion ;)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 04:29:47 PM by motorsep »

BielBdeLuna

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2015, 04:28:39 PM »
the dark mod did succeed because it created it's own community of active developers and the original intent was met, whether this has brought an enormous benefit  to the original authors is another matter that doesn't contradict the fact that it succeeded.

I wonder why success should be gauged by the amount of pc gamers who play their game, as long as their community is alive and they are ok with it, they have succeeded in their own terms. In any case that's your method to gauge success not theirs, projecting one onto the other might not reveal anything.

nobody said that OTE is being done for the Indies, if Indies want to use it great, if Indies want to contribute on it great, but OTE is being done because the freedom of the developers will. Freedom has everything to do with it. Why despise the intelligence of the OTE developers? or distrust their capacity? and again, the same above, what you say it has to be might not what every one else thinks it has to be.

Also, unless we are pressed to "use" OTE in some, for the time being, unknown project, we have no pressure on implementing anything specific to the engine besides whatever we already want to implement to it, that also has to do with our freedom, nobody is loosing money that doesn't want to loose on that project because nobody has poured any specific money on it. and nobody that we know about besides ourselves has any need for that engine to succeed. Hence we keep at our pace, we are not in competition with anyone.

BielBdeLuna

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2015, 04:30:41 PM »
even if you don't like Motorsep views he has all the right of the world to express himself, but at the same time his right also includes his right to be criticised.  ;) Let's keep speaking and not shouting please  8)

and NO, arguing with Motorsep it's always an enjoyment :)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 04:32:33 PM by BielBdeLuna »

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2015, 04:34:38 PM »
the dark mod did succeed because it created it's own community of active developers and the original intent was met, whether this has brought an enormous benefit  to the original authors is another matter that doesn't contradict the fact that it succeeded.

I wonder why success should be gauged by the amount of pc gamers who play their game, as long as their community is alive and they are ok with it, they have succeeded in their own terms. In any case that's your method to gauge success not theirs, projecting one onto the other might not reveal anything.

nobody said that OTE is being done for the Indies, if Indies want to use it great, if Indies want to contribute on it great, but OTE is being done because the freedom of the developers will. Freedom has everything to do with it. Why despise the intelligence of the OTE developers? or distrust their capacity? and again, the same above, what you say it has to be might not what every one else thinks it has to be.

Also, unless we are pressed to "use" OTE in some, for the time being, unknown project, we have no pressure on implementing anything specific to the engine besides whatever we already want to implement to it, that also has to do with our freedom, nobody is loosing money that doesn't want to loose on that project because nobody has poured any specific money on it. and nobody that we know about besides ourselves has any need for that engine to succeed. Hence we keep at our pace, we are not in competition with anyone.

And I quote "Engine based on (RB) Doom 3 BFG aiming to allow the creation of standalone games" So, who creates standalone games? Non-indies ? Modders? Publishers? Give me a break!

TDM has developers who don't fly in the clouds. They are grounded in reality and choose to implement stuff that benefits future development. If you notice, they didn't go for anything crazy in the engine. They kept it as is. And they aren't planning on switching to BFG either.

Whatever you have been suggesting so far it totally opposite. It's going from obscurity idTech 4 already is to a deeper obscurity with middleware that is not the best choice, least to say.

But like you said, you can do whatever you want thanks to GPL.

 O0

dingleberry

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2015, 04:39:41 PM »
Well you didn't really answer my questions at all.

But good luck with this community and talking to the people here like shit, since you think that's OK to do. Working with idtech4 since 2012? Been on it since 2004, but we're talking semantics.

And Friar has no balls what so ever, if he did, you should've been banned.

BielBdeLuna

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2015, 04:41:57 PM »
I keep my position that we are not in competition with anyone so we are going at our own pace, do you think this is a problem?

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2015, 04:46:14 PM »
Well you didn't really answer my questions at all.

But good luck with this community and talking to the people here like shit, since you think that's OK to do. Working with idtech4 since 2012? Been on it since 2004, but we're talking semantics.

And Friar has no balls what so ever, if he did, you should've been banned.

There is only one reason you didn't get anything out of my write up - language barrier most likely :P

I don't talk to people like shit - you do. Don't need to go too far - in one of the a bit older threads you showed us it all.

You can be with engine since 1999 or whatever, doesn't mean you are proficient with it and know a lot about the inner working. I think I asked to show some of your work, and I don't believe I ever got links.

I've worked with some programmers who had 20+ years of experience. That didn't make them good programmers at all. Like, _at all_. I could navigate Doom 3's code better than they did, and I am not even a programmer.

motorsep

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Re: RBDOOM3-BFG GUI system
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2015, 04:46:51 PM »
I keep my position that we are not in competition with anyone so we are going at our own pace, do you think this is a problem?

Nope, not at all :)