Author Topic: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack  (Read 1862 times)

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oneofthe8devilz

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(CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« on: June 24, 2016, 10:34:14 AM »
When this was first released back in 2013 I instantly knew it was going to have an impact on the way how the game "feels" and I knew at some point in development I wanted to implement it for my own idtech4 projects...

It is nice to see the first wip idtech4 projects on moddb utilizing it and I just wanted to create this thread so the most recent implementations of the pack can be discussed here...

This BFG Mod here seems to make excellent use of it:


Also this original Doom3 1.3.1 Mod is utilizing it:


"punk0x29a" aka "Jan Kowalski" was kind enough to provide me with a basic asset and source code version of the "Overthinked DooM^3" CED implementation since I always I found the idea of working on a more tactical approach of a Doom3 mod very intriguing and was playing for quite some time with the thought of combining that with cooperative multiplayer elements, forcing players to really play through levels together tactically, instead of gunning everything down that moves.

Unfortunately I am still busy as hell with multiple idtech4 projects aswell as other non idtech4 related VR game projects but I hope in the not too distant future a time window will open up, allowing me to think about a multiplayer/cooperative implementation of those tactical elements.

In the meantime feel free to discuss that package here.

(CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack Download Link: http://www.moddb.com/mods/star1088/downloads

P.S. @VGames: "punk0x29a" told me that you did all the work on the double barreled shotgun and I must say I simply love the way it looks and ironsights in this video.

Great Job !

I got six little friends and they all run faster than you ;)


Check out our mods at
moddb or the SPS Homepage

VGames

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 11:21:50 AM »
Don't thank me thank doomtrinity for that. One of the many great things he did for PD3.

This assets pack has helped PD3 as well. I used the scope overlay trick for the rocket launcher in my mod and from that made another variant of the scope feature for the machine gun. So I learned from it a lot. Other then that the assets pack was of no use to me. Good stuff though.
Get the latest on Perfected Doom 3 here - http://www.moddb.com/mods/perfected-doom-3-version-500

EoceneMiacid

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 09:25:57 PM »
This looks really interesting, but I can't get the pack to work properly.
I created a /cedassetspack folder, and dropped both pk4's in there, along with the 1.1 and 1.2 patch.

If I try to run it as a mod, it crashes with the mystifying error:

"ERROR: Error: file pak000.pk4/script/map_monorail.script, line 203: Exceeded global memory size (196608 bytes)"

After experimenting for a while, I've found that the culprit is the ai_player.script file. If I move that file elsewhere, I can play the mod (with some missing features, no doubt).

So I'm now trying to comment out all the modifications made to that file. Interestingly, the global memory size error came back.

Google has next to no useful information about this error. Ironically, the only thing I've found was another thread on this board by VGames with a similar error, but no helpful explanation :/

I'm going to continue hunting down what exactly causes it tomorrow morning.
In the meantime, anybody got an idea what could cause it?

VGames

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 10:02:09 PM »
Your have too much modded content running at the same time. The only way to fix it is to get rid of some. Increasing the allowed amount I the source will crash the game.
Get the latest on Perfected Doom 3 here - http://www.moddb.com/mods/perfected-doom-3-version-500

Bladeghost

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2016, 02:21:07 AM »
I have CED's asset pack implemented into my new Phantasm Beyond 2 mod. (http://www.moddb.com/mods/phantasm-beyond-ii-the-neverdead) with iron sights and fire mode control (rapid fire and single shot).
it was not too hard to build with however it should be done all from the beginning of a mod when starting a project to be sure it all works and then built upon from there. well that's how it was for me when I put my mod together with it. it's a great feature to have and use for D3.   
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 02:40:45 AM by Bladeghost »

EoceneMiacid

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2016, 03:28:40 AM »
Your have too much modded content running at the same time. The only way to fix it is to get rid of some. Increasing the allowed amount I the source will crash the game.

...

That makes NO sense, at all.

In that case, everyone else should run into the exact same problem. Also, some of the mods advertised here mod way, way more than this pack does.

Please stop pulling things out of your ass.

0x29a

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2016, 06:31:57 AM »
@EoceneMiacid - I remember that problem, but I can't rememeber how to fix it. There was a thread about it at now dead DooM3World, you may look for it. It was also mentioned on the Grimm's mod web page. I'm sorry that I can't remember exact fix. My best bet now is to make clear mod prefix, and apply patches one by one to see where the error lands. I'm also certain that there was some kind of CLI switch to make an error go away, but I can't even remember which one ( it was like three years ago ) so I don't want to mislead you. But try around, wish you best luck.

@main_topic:

CED2011 AP is one of my favourite mods of all time.
It made my imagination running wild and thanks to El Dragon making it explicity publicly available under license even less restrictive then MIT's one it kickstarted my mod like a nuclear missile.

All the animations are top notch (except for machinegun running cycle beginning, broken IMO) and, for the first serious attempt to make DooM 3 realistic, it does pretty good job.

HUD overlays and dynamic crosshair behaviour are very sophisticated and I learned a lot from studying them. I've resigned from them completely at one point because my mod uses projected laser sights for aiming, but they are cool nevertheless and they have a lot of potential ( look at VGames post).

My mod ( Overthinked ) - now in deep developement for version 2 - used many parts of it for quite a long time, even from the very beginning. Now I'm using combination of CED2011 AP, Perfected DooM 3 v7 assets ( will be unavailable for general public for at least a week ), and some vanilla weapons with a twist (Phrozo/Benzo tricks).

There are few key points where CED's AP falls short as a standalone mod.

1) Balancing is bad.

That's just true. Armor has 100% protection ratio (set by a script) and damage dealt by monsters is scaled accordingly. It means that once you run out of armor, you're basically dead. Pistol zsec shoots you down with a single bullet in a foot.
 
2) No running and gunning.   

Some like it, some don't. I don't.
Every DooM game is centered around this concept of projectile-based attacks performed by enemies, and you got to do some strafe-running and priority-assignment in order to have a successful campaign. It's kinda like dancing. Making weapon unavailable while running destroys that mechanics. But again - some like it, some don't.
Also, while we're at it, I got to admit that it was executed in a very cool way ( practically every weapon has running animation assigned to it ) which looks and feels much better than just lowering a weapon if running key is pressed ( YES, YES, I'M LOOKING AT YOU!, YES, YOU! :) Nah, not you, I mean this other guy :) Yeah, exactly :) )

3) Sounds are ... well... strange.

I know, I know... I've been using some CED sounds for a long time because I really liked them.
But it has changed.
From what I see most of the criticism my mod receives is centered around that loud shooting sounds on some weapons. Yeah, they all have good amount of "BANG", but is it really that necessary? After 2 years of using them I'm going to replace them completely, as they're cool and atmospheric for the first 15 minutes... But not in a long run.
I have to mention here that sound work in CED2011 AP is very sophisticated - practically every sound has two variants, indoors (with echo) and outdoors version, resolved dynamically via script. I've resigned from that feature because 99% of gameplay takes place indoors, and echo behaves weird at times (sound cutoff, anyone?) , but damn... That was some HUGE amount of work and I can only congratulate mr. El Dragon on both the idea and it's execution.

4) Blinking

That's just bad. You're the one who does the blinking all the time. Programmed blink every few seconds is not immersive. It's annoying.
 If you're doing a mod based on this pack, please - turn off the blinking.
Thank you. 


All and all, CED2011 AP had (and has) incredible amount of influence on DooM 3 modding community. It sets a ripple in a water you can feel even today while browsing moddb's news column. Every now and then I see "new" mod coming up, you know, like "Complete Uber Super Duper Overhaul Bonus Pack". And what's in there?

- Wulfen textures.
- and CED2011 AP.

So yeah... Those two became something like an industry standard here. Too bad that many folks put CED's pack as-is inside their mods. It's not only repetitive, but also doesn't make much sense. Especially with vanilla D3 mechanics at play.

But it's GREAT learning experience, motherlode of cool ideas, and it's free. People like CED make this community alive and kickin.

If you're reading this, thank you for all your hard work, CED.     

 

 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 06:56:05 AM by 0x29a »

EoceneMiacid

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2016, 08:22:18 AM »
Yeah, I agree.

It doesn't change Doom 3's gameplay nearly enough to work well as a standalone mod, but it sure does provide a lot of material I'm eager to implement. In a way, it's actually good that it doesn't work for me without having to hack it to pieces first, since it helps me understand how idt4 works. Last week I had to take tinman squad apart because that wouldn't work either, and I now have a fairly good understanding of how the AI system works. And working bots too :)

So now I'm doing it all over again, but this time using Tinman 0.4 as a template, which is a bitch because it comes with a precompiled dll which is useless to me as a Linux dhewm3 user :/

Being this late to the idt4 party is a bitch, though. There's hardly any thorough documentation out there, and I have to say this forum hasn't helped me out all that much either, despite the helpful intentions of a few ;)

But that's okay. I'm making good progress, I've already got a lot of stuff I wanted from the start up and running, and packs like these are very welcome.


VGames

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2016, 02:36:40 PM »
Your have too much modded content running at the same time. The only way to fix it is to get rid of some. Increasing the allowed amount I the source will crash the game.

...

That makes NO sense, at all.

In that case, everyone else should run into the exact same problem. Also, some of the mods advertised here mod way, way more than this pack does.

Please stop pulling things out of your ass.

It would make sense if you actually knew what you were doing. So why don't u quit responding like a jerk and listen to what I have to say since I know way more then u about modding this game. U have too many script files in use via the doom main files. You're probably trying to use this with your ROE based mod right? You'll run into this problem when u use Doom 3 + ROE + your mod content. You have too much added mod content. Listen to me because I ran into this error and another memory error when I ported PD3 over to ROE.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 03:26:14 PM by VGames »
Get the latest on Perfected Doom 3 here - http://www.moddb.com/mods/perfected-doom-3-version-500

EoceneMiacid

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2016, 07:04:41 PM »
Well, no, as I've stated, I've put the four pk4's in their own separate folder (cedassets) and then ran doom3 +set fs_game cedassets, making sure nothing else was loaded.

The problem here is the included ai_player. script, plain and simple. Omitting that file - so Doom 3 uses the default one - works, but then I'm missing out one some of the mod's features. But the ones I'm primarily interested in work. The iron sights mode is really well done, exactly what I was looking for - at least until I make it work with my laser pointer, instead of the crosshair.

So I've tried commenting out line by line that has been added to that file, but then other problems start to arise.

I'm sorry if I come across as a jerk, it's just frustrating that there's so little documentation available, and then there's the thing that mods just plain never work , even those who don't need a dll file.

Even mods who advertise themselves as Linux-compatible and indeed come with a .so file (the linux equivalent of a dll), never work. At least, none that I tried.

At least I'm learning a lot about modding Doom 3 by having to fix them first.

The Happy Friar

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2016, 12:06:02 AM »
This covers most of the D3 basics: https://www.iddevnet.com/doom3/

EoceneMiacid

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2016, 04:31:10 AM »
Yes, I use that, but I don't think it's very thorough. I mean, just compare it to the zDoom wiki.

At least it does have some use.


The Happy Friar

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Re: (CED) Chimuelos Assets Pack
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2016, 12:08:40 PM »
When Doom came out there was nothing.  Modders wrote zDoom wiki (decades later?).  When Doom 3 came out there was idddevnet.  Modders didn't write much.

moddb.com is the next best source for D3 tutorials now.