Author Topic: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10  (Read 15524 times)

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romulus_ut3

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2015, 09:12:11 AM »
Yes, on Windows 10. I don't see what's the issue motorsep is referring to at all.

The Happy Friar

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2015, 03:15:06 PM »
I remember a lot if issues with RAGE when it first came out, mostly relating to ATI/AMD cards.  By the time I bought it the issues seems to have been resolved.

bkt

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2015, 04:18:01 PM »
I remember a lot if issues with RAGE when it first came out, mostly relating to ATI/AMD cards.  By the time I bought it the issues seems to have been resolved.
From what I remember, AMD botched drivers that were available on Rage's launch. 

I've had two ATI cards in the last decade.  A 9600XT that played D3 on medium, adequately and then a 5870Mobility.  The 2nd card was enough to firmly plant me back in the nvidia camp.  Their driver packages are garbage (still are, as I still have the ATI based laptop) and the compatibility issues they have are almost non existent with equivalent nvidia cards. 

It's a shame, but I've had average at best experiences with ATI as a consumer and completely negative as a developer.  As stated earlier, the issues I had working with idTech4 were exclusive to ATI gpu's and I spent far too much time trying to minimize the damage only to be unable to eradicate it.

argoon

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2015, 01:45:15 PM »
I see so many people complaining about AMD supposed problems and driver problems when in here i have none of that, it makes me wonder if the problem is indeed AMD or the users, it all works fine here, i always do a clean driver install, i never overclock my GPU and i never force anything trough CCC, all at default,  i play all my games with no problems whatsoever, OpenGL or otherwise, even played penumbra necrologue today with custom shaders forced with reShade framework (its a injector similar to SweetFX but works with OpenGL games) http://reshade.me/ , all worked as expected.
Btw Doom 3 works fine (only add the normal problems with modded doom 3, solved after disabling C-AI), Doom3BFG works fine, RBDoom3BFG works fine and is perfectly playable here even with soft shadows enabled at 1080p no AA, and this was true with my old AMD HD 5770 and now with my new R9 270X.

So Wolf TNO and Wolf OB and RAGE work fine for you? I haven't see a single AMD user who had those games working fine for them (except of one R9 290X user).

I don't have Wolf TNO or Wolf OB, RAGE i do have the only problem i have is the normal texture popping, i also have The Evil Within, works fine, as RAGE there's texture popping but is less pronounced, i'm sure this is a problem even with Nvidia GPU's, no crash no graphical glitches nothing. Idtech 4 seams to be the black sheep and only because of the unfortunately C - AI mess.


...Their driver packages are garbage (still are, as I still have the ATI based laptop) and the compatibility issues they have are almost non existent with equivalent nvidia cards.
...As stated earlier, the issues I had working with idTech4 were exclusive to ATI gpu's and I spent far too much time trying to minimize the damage only to be unable to eradicate it.

bkt i'm sure you have a bad taste of AMD after the False Down problems and i sympathise with you, love the mod btw, but saying the drivers are garbage is a little hyperbole imo, do you think i would be here defending AMD if their drivers were really that bad?  I'm not a sadomasochist and i don't support a company no matter what, if my games were working so bad i would go to a Nvidia GPU in a heartbeat, hell i bought a laptop with a nvidia GPU just to install Linux on it (because of all the AMD problems on LinuX).

Atlest on AMD you need to take this in consideration, 99% of all the people generally having problems with AMD drivers are:

1 - Crossfire users (mostly caused by lack of developer support and slow game profile release).

2 - AMD Eyefinity users (more than 2 monitors mind you, i have two and they work well).

3 - OpenGL games and on this one in my experience only a select few seem to have serious problems, modded idtech 4 being one, mostly solved by disabling CAI.

4 - People that don't make a clean driver install when upgrading the drivers, found that this solves the majority of problems.

This ones below are just supposition on my part but i'm sure it has an effect.

5 - people that overclock their GPU's (even tho AMD don't recommend and it will void your guarantee, they used to boast how their GPU's overclocked well, so shame on them not the users)

6 - people that force extra effects through CCC or any third party injectors (even tho i did that like i said some posts above and add no problems).


I remember a lot if issues with RAGE when it first came out, mostly relating to ATI/AMD cards.  By the time I bought it the issues seems to have been resolved.

Yes that is true it was because AMD released by mistake a old driver where megatextures support was burked, was solved very quickly tho, but it did put a bad taste in many people's mouths, especially on idsoftware and they were not friends with AMD to begin with. I'm not claiming AMD is a saint or free of error but imo is not more than Nvidia ever was.   
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 02:29:58 PM by argoon »

motorsep

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2015, 02:22:42 PM »
The thing is that for 99% of gamers AMD doesn't work well. Even if it works flawlessly for you, the fact is that AMD has always had rotten drivers, especially OpenGL ones. They make good hardware, and horrible software.

argoon

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2015, 02:54:42 PM »
motorsep i know you hate AMD, hell all idtech 4 modders have legit complaints for AMD, i know part of this comes especially after they didn't treated you as a AAA developer, when you talked/complained with them, but hating AMD and not agreeing with how they manage their indie developer support/relations (that you have the right) is a far cry from claiming 99% of users have problems (that is obviously not true) and that they make horrible software (that i don't concur). Btw about their skills at software making, they did made Mantle, the API that is now Vulkan (OpenGL next), and this from a company that historically add bad OpenGL support, what do you say of that?!

motorsep

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2015, 03:39:02 PM »
motorsep i know you hate AMD, hell all idtech 4 modders have legit complaints for AMD, i know part of this comes especially after they didn't treated you as a AAA developer, when you talked/complained with them, but hating AMD and not agreeing with how they manage their indie developer support/relations (that you have the right) is a far cry from claiming 99% of users have problems (that is obviously not true) and that they make horrible software (that i don't concur). Btw about their skills at software making, they did made Mantle, the API that is now Vulkan (OpenGL next), and this from a company that historically add bad OpenGL support, what do you say of that?!

I have AMD CPU :)

Where is Mantle ? Only a few games support it. They also have OpenCL that doesn't work. Vulkan was announced by Kronos Group, which includes Nvidia, Intel, AMD and many other companies. AMD will contribute Mantle (which they dropped the ball with). They aren't developing Vulkan single handily.

AMD doesn't have great skills in software making. If they did, there would be no issues with OpenGL. Hell, Intel has better OpenGL drivers than AMD, even on Linux.

You may disagree as much as you want :)

argoon

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2015, 04:29:21 PM »
I have AMD CPU :)

I don't, prefer Intel.

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Where is Mantle ? Only a few games support it.

Mantle by AMD admission was never to be a long living API, at least as a AMD only tech, they always said it would be open to all, but i'm sure AMD made it to stir the waters and improve the PC API landscape, more and more developers were complaining how the API's on PC were preventing them from using the true potential of the modern GPU architectures, and how draw calls limit on PC was a bigger problem than on consoles.   

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They also have OpenCL that doesn't work. Vulkan was announced by Kronos Group, which includes Nvidia, Intel, AMD and many other companies. AMD will contribute Mantle (which they dropped the ball with). They aren't developing Vulkan single handily.

First OpenCL is not a AMD tech it was made by Apple and improved by the Kronos Group, if it works or not i don't know, also i know this group has people from all industry including Nvidia but that's beside the point, second this group didn't announced Vulkan but OpenGL Next, full specifications or if it would be a low level API (like mantle) were not initially announced,  AMD "will not" contribute Mantle they already did, that is why any presentation from Kronos Group about Vulkan has a slide giving thanks to AMD, Thanks AMD!! they also changed the name to Vulkan only after AMD gave them Mantle. Don't know where you take your info from but AMD didn't drop the ball on Mantle, yes they recommend people to go with Dx12 or Vulkan but they still fully support Mantle on their drivers and will for some time.     

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AMD doesn't have great skills in software making. If they did, there would be no issues with OpenGL. Hell, Intel has better OpenGL drivers than AMD, even on Linux.

Like you claim people on this forum give too many pats on the back and don't talk hard bitten truths?  I will be truthful with you, how many OpenGL games exist compared to D3D games? Not that much, Mac and linuX gaming is small compared to windows and consoles (and neither console use OpenGL), couple that with a relatively smaller company compared to Nvidia and Intel, with a much less RD money and support staff and something will have to give and OpenGL it is. OpenGL ES doesn't count is mostly used on mobiles and neither AMD or even Nvidia are the majority of GPU's on that segment. 

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You may disagree as much as you want :)

oh i do i certainly do, but i don't disagree with someone just for the kicks. ;) 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 04:32:17 PM by argoon »

motorsep

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2015, 04:54:14 PM »
Like you claim people on this forum give too many pats on the back and don't talk hard bitten truths?

Your "truth" is quite subjective, almost fanboy'ish :)

I will be truthful with you, how many OpenGL games exist compared to D3D games? Not that much, Mac and linuX gaming is small compared to windows and consoles (and neither console use OpenGL), couple that with a relatively smaller company compared to Nvidia and Intel, with a much less RD money and support staff and something will have to give and OpenGL it is. OpenGL ES doesn't count is mostly used on mobiles and neither AMD or even Nvidia are the majority of GPU's on that segment. 

Believe it or not, anything that run on Linux/PS3/PS4 has to have OpenGL. UE4/Unity5/CE EaaS/Source/Source2/all idTech engines (except maybe id Tech 6, unless they aim for Linux release) have OpenGL renderer (wrapper or fully fledged). Any indie game that runs on Linux has OpenGL renderer.

PlayStation 3 and 4 has OpenGL like API. And apparently AMD managed to write driver that works (or maybe Sony did?) for consoles. AMD admitted that they channel resources where money is. And it's not PC market for AMD. Plus, they don't give a damn about indies.

argoon

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2015, 06:23:21 PM »
Like you claim people on this forum give too many pats on the back and don't talk hard bitten truths?

Your "truth" is quite subjective, almost fanboy'ish :)

Oh please, now someone that doesn't concur with you is automatically a fanboy, ok.

 
Quote

Believe it or not, anything that run on Linux/PS3/PS4 has to have OpenGL. UE4/Unity5/CE EaaS/Source/Source2/all idTech engines (except maybe id Tech 6, unless they aim for Linux release) have OpenGL renderer (wrapper or fully fledged). Any indie game that runs on Linux has OpenGL renderer.

PlayStation 3 and 4 has OpenGL like API. And apparently AMD managed to write driver that works (or maybe Sony did?) for consoles. AMD admitted that they channel resources where money is. And it's not PC market for AMD. Plus, they don't give a damn about indies.

Oh i believe it, games that want to run on Linux or mac as to have OpenGL render (on Mac you can now use metal tho), but that doesn't invalidate my claim about the number of OpenGL games VS D3D and others. Again yes all those engines have OpenGL renders but that's required if you want to support LinuX (and mobile for OpenGL ES).
I'M NOT against OpenGL (i would not be on a idtech 4 forum either wise) and i know AMD lacks good OpenGL support and THAT'S the problem here, you are taking AMD idtech 4/OpenGL problems and applying that to everything AMD does, including their D3D support, that is why i'm defending AMD here, especially because i don't have the problems, like crash's that you seem to claim others (what others?) and you have, not because i'm a AMD fanboy, i'm also against unreasonable and unfair claims like " their drivers are garbage or rotten and they can't make good software".
Are you seeing me denying the existence of idtech 4 AMD problems? No, i add them, especially with sikk mod like anyone else, solved by disabling C-AI, you can accuse me of being soft with AMD but that's because of the "little guy" syndrome that i have, i'm more inclined to support the less successful company than the more successful one, but i'm not that stupid and will not support them no matter what, like i said.

Btw from conversations before about this subject with other game developers, i know that neither used on PS4 OpenGL, they use the low level GNM API (Mantle like), on Xbox they used a modified version of D3D and on Wii U AFAIK they use a API called GX2 (i think is a modified version of OpenGL not sure), neither use OpenGL as is. 

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And apparently AMD managed to write driver that works (or maybe Sony did?) for consoles.

I don't know and you don't know so we should not assume anything?

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AMD admitted that they channel resources where money is.

And is this a bad thing? Forget we are talking about AMD for a second, tell me of a company were does make commercial sense to channel limited resources to where money is not?

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Plus, they don't give a damn about indies.

Like i said initially, this is the cross of the problem and because of that "their drivers are rotten and they don't know how to make good software", i sympathize with you and any idtech 4 user about the OpenGL problems and i think AMD add much more to gain being more indie friendly but neither of those make me regret buying my AMD GPU's (mainly because i play other OpenGL games including Doom 3/prey/Quake 4, idtech 3 games, etc with no apparent problem), but you are of course free to not support AMD users like myself, me personally i don't want developers, especially OpenGL developers supporting AMD "just because or i have to" because that lack of will translates into the quality of the support, is bad to the user and bad to the developer imo.   
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 06:30:22 PM by argoon »

VGames

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2015, 08:31:53 PM »
Like I've already said before, I'm going with Nvidia the next time I upgrade. I think everybody should.
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revelator

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2016, 10:04:01 AM »
i dunno ... i been running with 2 crossfired R9 270x cards for 2 years now and besides some initial driver problems regarding crossfire which have long since been fixed
my cards run the snot out of anything not a titan :) even games i couldnt get my nvidia 560gtx to run runs fine with these babies.

But yeah nvidia is normally known for having better opengl support.

Btw the new AMD drivers will be based on QT5 instead of NET framework so better linux support should be comming.

Mine allready use the new drivers (crimson edition) but i heard some people are having trouble with the new gui, in time it should be fixed though.

VGames

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Re: Doom3/BFG and Windows 10
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2016, 11:21:17 AM »
That's great but I'm going with the nvidia 980ti. I'll be more then OK. Never used 2 cards. Probably never will. Unless I wake up rich one day. Nvidia is just more solid. I've been using ati for over a decade. Love the power but I hate the driver issues and sorry opengl support. Back when I use to use nvidia cards everything about using them was just so much smoother. Don't know why I got so heavy into ati. Probably because I had an amd mobo and cpu for so long.
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