Let's discuss ways to reach a wider audience with our community. I know there are many Idtech modders currently 'floating' with no real home to speak of, let's plaster links to this place everywhere you go, advertising it as an advanced/elite modding forum. Make it a bit special so we can raise the quality of posting here and perhaps get some more professionals active.
I'm pretty sick of the yes/no/i'm smarter/quicker/better than you discussions here and I'd love to see in depth tech talk about modding, without all the mud throwing.
For that we need much more posters and a more active community. I'd love to hear ideas and see you guys pull your weight in trying to grow the community.
Do not start any discussions about the current quality of posting, this thread is not to solve discussions or disputes, it's to find ways to grow the community.
maybe the community would grow if there where improvements to the engine making it more tempting for new users? I bet doing something to improve it's capacity to create great levels fighting the perception that the engine is only geared towards closed spaces would make the engine more attractive.
having already a LOD system like the one in the dark mod we might need a way to represent a great terrain differently than having a single huge model.
I was thinking of a more simpler approach, like everyone post a link here in sigs on other boards, make a post on other boards that you visit, let people know to come and visit here, the no.1 idtech modding place to be etc..etc.. :)
It will be tough recruiting new members with always the same usual suspects talking this engine and this page down... but there are things I personally can do, like adding links to this forum to my homepage and possibly doing the same to my idtech4 based moddb.com projects.
This idea might potentially backfire and be ripe for abuse, but perhaps a "gallery" feature where users can vote (one vote, one user) individual images up and down the queue. People always like to see pics than need to trudge through dozens of posts of talk.
Quote from: oneofthe8devilz on August 08, 2015, 05:37:59 AM
It will be tough recruiting new members with always the same usual suspects talking this engine and this page down... but there are things I personally can do, like adding links to this forum to my homepage and possibly doing the same to my idtech4 based moddb.com projects.
It's my hope to overcrowd any negativity. ;)
You could build community if you offer something to people, and not push your MCS mod, for example, without providing playable version. Look at Dota2, TF2, etc. (Valve's) communities and learn from it.
Probably would be wise to visit Steam's discussions for Doom 3 and post a poll about this forums. Ask what people want. I have a feeling there aren't too many people wanting to actually mod Doom 3. There are quite a few people who want to play BFG with all good mods.
There are no up-to-date tutorials for Doom 3 / RoE modding (video tutorials, since that's what seems trendy nowadays). Make quality training material to attract modders. If you find fiddling with Doom 3 assets, reverse engineering stuff and digging web archive fun, I am going to disappoint you - modern games/modders don't want to do that.
Also, you are not ready to handle community, since you will push away people who has something critical to say about DOom 3, id Tech 4 and your work. Before its end, d3w only had like 5 people, who are doing the same thing they were doing at d3w - trying to single out individuals who criticizes (rightfully, nonetheless) the subject. Hell, if you had banning power, you would ban people instantly. I am looking at you, oneofthe8devilz!
That being said, I would be nice to have active and productive modern community, where people don't pat each other on the back without a good reason.
O0
I wouldn't ban you motorsep, like I said previously you are a bizarre personality and I try my best to understand and if possible to integrate you into this forum... honestly.
It's just that sometimes you tend to express yourself in an ill-fated way (I still have no clue whether you do that deliberately or not)...
For example, if I were a new potential member to be recruited and I read:
Quote from: motorsep on August 08, 2015, 10:10:24 AM
I have a feeling there aren't too many people wanting to actually mod Doom 3.
There are no up-to-date tutorials for Doom 3 / RoE modding (video tutorials, since that's what seems trendy nowadays).
If you find fiddling with Doom 3 assets, reverse engineering stuff and digging web archive fun, I am going to disappoint you - modern games/modders don't want to do that.
I certainly would be demotivated to join this forum as a new modding member...
Apart from the fact that I strictly disagree with you on that topic, it simply doesn't help in any possible way recruiting new members.
Here's something I want to know. Who all here is actually interested in moving their work over to BFG. Because frankly I'm kind of sick of people nagging at me about not moving my work to BFG like I owe them something. Wouldn't it be fare to have the opinion that the guys who bought BFG should have done better research on what they were buying? I'm not trying to hate on the newcomers who bought BFG but I'm tired of the subject. If u bought BFG then u screwed yourself. I don't think we'll ever see the best of the best mod's ported to BFG. Don't even know if I should have posted this here but I had to vent.
I feel better now.
BFG is indeed a good engine, it even has stereo 3D support as a bonus, but imo there's some things that need resolving before it becomes a viable replacement to vanilla, one make a easier way to make GUI's, flash is fine but there's no tutorial out there on how to make even a simple fullscreen GUI in flash work for BFG (i'm looking at you motorsep, want the rest of the modders to share? Why not be the first?), two a place online where people can see the differences in shaders, material support and scripting, if any, between BFG and Vanilla.
Guys, I'm talking about growing the community, meaning:
- On other forums, link back here.
- Talk to other modders about this forum (e.g. on your IMDB pages, on IMDB threads, etc..etc...)
- Link to this page from your other gaming page profiles, and if you have it from your own website.
- Share the link on facebook pages about modding/modeling/general gaming and modding pages.
etc..etc..
Sorry I didn't mean to get off topic. I already link back here when talking to anybody about Doom 3 modding. So I'm doing my part. I've referred at least 10 times that I can think of.
Q2Cafe (http://leray.proboards.com/) has occasional mapping contests & Tastyspleen (http://forum.tastyspleen.net/quake/index.php) hosts a bunch of servers & people post new non-mapping content there (skins, item replacements, etc). TS also normally has a QuakeCon presence (that's how I found out about them, from Jehar (http://tastyspleen.tv/) back at my first QuakeCon in '05. I've still got two servers & I could put content on them & post the addresses up top, but D3 makes it such a PITA to autodownload content I'd rather make Q2 MP content vs D3. :)
The best way to get people here would be to have people post on moddb.com that they get their info here, if they did. moddb.com is the "new" planet sties imho. It's the central hub most people go to for content & news.
Checked the stats, the top refers for idtechforums are (in order):
- Google Search
- Yandex
- Bing
- DoomWorld (in a thread about editing Doom 3)
- Doom3.ru
- Darkmod Forums
- Hexen Mod Forums
- moddb.com hardcore doomers group
Don't get to excited, at most a dozen refers from non-searches.
I think we should bait members by creating a Doom4 modding section. I know it's going to be extremely limited, but I get the feeling we'll be getting quite a big influx of people wanting to mod Doom3 after it turns out D4 is so limited. If we can prepare for that with a dedicated section I think we can really grow the community. I'm talking banners on IMDB etc..
If we could create a Doom4 modding section explaining how to extract assets from D4 it would be a great start.
We should also create a Steam group and get active there, but I'll leave that up to you HF. :)
Quote from: BloodRayne on August 09, 2015, 08:39:01 AM
I think we should bait members by creating a Doom4 modding section. I know it's going to be extremely limited, but I get the feeling we'll be getting quite a big influx of people wanting to mod Doom3 after it turns out D4 is so limited. If we can prepare for that with a dedicated section I think we can really grow the community. I'm talking banners on IMDB etc..
If we could create a Doom4 modding section explaining how to extract assets from D4 it would be a great start.
We should also create a Steam group and get active there, but I'll leave that up to you HF. :)
I think this is a very good idea.
I like the Doom (4) section idea so I added one. Now that we have seen the game and it's most likely going to be released it's worth having a section.
There's a forum for SnapMap & general modding.
If someone wants to do a Steam group feel free. I'm not in to Steam much, just use it to play games & comment on forums occasionally.
That is some sneaky crap.
I like it.
Hi!
I've spent the last week getting accustomed to idTech4, learning how to mod weapons, and creating and compiling small maps. I used to make maps for Half-Life a long time ago, which definitely helps.
It's also great to see how Doom³ really becomes that much more fun to play when tweaking weapon values to something sensible. It's obvious id chose to gimp them in various ways to make the game more difficult.
Having spent years in the ZDoom community, it's sad to see idtech4's doesn't even come close. In order to improve the situation and attract more developers, several issues need to be addressed. The main problems are:
- Creating quality content for Doom³ requires considerably more skill, dedication and time.
- Only one idTech4 game is open source for now, and the user base has been split between 'classic' and 'BFG' camps
- Despite good efforts, there's not a single mod out there that's unanimously regarded as the must-play killer app mod in the same way Brutal Doom or CounterStrike is.
- Fullblown modding requires creating a C++ library. This is problematic for many reasons.
For starters, this means that the huge majority of mods are tied to the Windows platform, and those that do not make their source code available are effectively destined to die a quick death.
- There are two source ports out there, with little to no overlap. Let's prevent splitting the community down even more.
So, what can be done?
Here's just some ideas off the top of my head.
First off, we need to unify the Classic and BFG groups. In order to achieve this, we need a single, well-maintained source port, supporting both editions. Let's not repeat the mistake the Doom community did, by splitting into many small factions each supporting an obscure port, each with their own incompatible mods.
We need to unify dhewm3 and RBDoomBFG.
Second, support for other idTech4 games needs to implemented. Games such as Quake 4, Prey and ETQW have great content, and having access to their assets from within Doom 3 will prove a very attractive feature.
Just dreaming out loud here, but imagine our source port having a feature which could convert classic Doom wads to idTech4 maps on the fly. Yes, this is feasible. That would surely entice a few thousand people to try out their wads in Doom³.
Implement advanced modding in the engine without the SDK or C++ requirement, with a scripting language such as Lua or Python implementation that exposes the API.
This means no more precompiled platform-dependent libraries are needed, and mods just plain work, regardless of the platform. ZDoom uses a language called ACS, which compiles to platform-agnostic bytecode. Doom³ would hugely benefit from something like this.
And, lastly, we need to unite what few modders there are in the community. A lot of the mods out there have overlapping features. So, instead of yet another HD graphics enhancement, all the developers need to gather to develop a single, 'industry-standard' mod featuring all the benefits that all of them individually offer.
Not trivial for sure, but if we could achieve at least some of these, developing for idTech4 will be a lot more attractive than it is now.
I will never make my mod accessible to the BFG users. I consider it a slap to everybody's face that have worked on idtech mods for years. A simple cash grab that knowingly would split a community that was always having trouble gaining a strong base. So not everybody that mods idtech 4 likes the BFG version of idtech 4. I will release my source very soon so anybody is more then welcome to port my mod over to BFG if they want. But I never will.
"- Despite good efforts, there's not a single mod out there that's unanimously regarded as the must-play killer app mod in the same way Brutal Doom or CounterStrike is."
I completely disagree. Doom 3 is and never will be as popular as Doom 1/2 or Half-life 1/2. That's why there isn't a world renowned mod for it like those games. Nobody cares enough to notice. But there are some remarkable pieces of work that go above and beyond. Heck my mod is doing pretty dang good for itself.
ZDoom is based on a game that was first released in 1993 and it took ~2 decades for the "killer app" to be released. I'd even saying that is a slap in the face to the FIRST "killer app" mod ever released, Aliens TC, and goes on to prove that in several years most people won't even know Brutal Doom exists. It took the Doom community by storm in the days of BBS's & modems, spread by word of mouth. Almost no tools existed when developed, no to little documentation, no easy way to publicize it.
Doom 3's got several mods that are that popular, most gamers don't play Doom 3 though. It has nothing to do with how hard to mod the game is (you can do almost all monster and weapon modifications w/o ever touching the C++ code, you can make new maps and several game specific assets types with tools included in the engine, open source software let you modify the textures. Only thing you could not to with just the first release of the game was make models out of the box). Very few people wanted to mod it. It's got a scripting built in, that supports more then ZDoom's ACS (and, if the Wiki is correct, ACS was implemented in 2006, two years after D3's release).
The biggest limit to Doom 3's modding has been lots of modders don't want to learn a new engine. It's considered "to hard" by people who haven't tried, and many who do expect it to be super easy.
I'm not sure if you remember the heyday of Doom/Quake modding, but lots of people & teams didn't wort together directly, lots of overlap, but also LOTS of experiments and knowledge sharing. There's dozens of great Quake and Quake 2 mods where the code was never released but the authors were happy to help out someone asking & write tutorials, etc. I can still find more tutorials on Doom, Quake or Q2 then I can Doom 3. Part I blame on the internet search engines (they're "smarter" then in the 90's early 00's, makes it harder to find what you want imho), part on the fact modding in the mid-00's & after got more "me" oriented vs 90's.
^ Endorsed
Doom 3 is dead. Id Tech 4 is dead. BFG is even more dead, despite the fact that there are 2 forks for BFG.
I bet people will be having more fun making maps for new Doom (which seems to be already a way more popular than Doom 3) than fully modding Doom 3. Not to mention new Doom runs ok on old PCs. It's not hard modding Doom 3 per se, it just takes too much effort to make something small.
Plus, you need to save up a lot of cash to convince devilz to release his coop code with improved networking for Doom . But then again, why?! New Doom offers coop capacity out of the box, for only 59 USD vs like $3500+ payout to devilz.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 25, 2016, 05:06:24 AM
- Despite good efforts, there's not a single mod out there that's unanimously regarded as the must-play killer app mod in the same way Brutal Doom or CounterStrike is.
Dark Mod.
As far as your general uniting the efforts under one project, I think it is a valuable notion. I think there is a lot that can be said for the scripting language already available in Doom 3 and a more modular asset creation style.
The problem is that everyone's project will have different aspirations, this is what makes it difficult make a centralized engine/api. Part of the solution might be to make mod assets/components that people can put into their own projects. Obviously this does not address the c++ dependency issues.
I mean, ultimately dark mod has the best features, support and community, so I would say that is probably the place to start, if you want to benefit from the most concerted effort towards a project. It is also freely available to download, has a more efficient editor and has a lot of great content out there.
I think the LUA and Python integration would be great.
Quote from: aphexjh on May 25, 2016, 10:49:56 AM
I think the LUA and Python integration would be great.
That's where all mods die. It's all waste of time. If the end game is to make a mod for Doom 3, why not to simply use what it already offers? If the end game to make a TC or a standalone game, better look for another engine. This way you can focus on making your project and not fighting the engine and its limitations.
Doom 3 engine is good for programmers to build up their portfolio. A ton of things can be improved and reworked and implemented.
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 11:09:21 AM
If the end game is to make a mod for Doom 3, why not to simply use what it already offers?
Like I said. Precompiled binaries tie mods to the platform they were compiled for.
I'm a Linux user. This means that almost all mods are useless to me. Also, the x86/x64 thing.
The dhewm3 author started a project to gather sources from mods so they can be compiled for any platform. But that is not trivial to do, since you require id's SDK and a fullblown IDE to compile them.
That's why the C++ thing is a headache. Switching to a dynamically interpreted language would solve this. It's what makes modding for Doom attractive; you make the mod, you distribute it, and people play it. No fuss.
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 11:09:21 AM
If the end game to make a TC or a standalone game, better look for another engine. This way you can focus on making your project and not fighting the engine and its limitations.
Not interested in another engine. I like idTech4. Also not interested in developing a standalone game. I would like to have all assets from every idTech4 available to me, though.
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 11:09:21 AM
Doom 3 engine is good for programmers to build up their portfolio. A ton of things can be improved and reworked and implemented.
Absolutely. So let's do it.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 25, 2016, 02:45:18 PM
Like I said. Precompiled binaries tie mods to the platform they were compiled for.
I'm a Linux user. This means that almost all mods are useless to me. Also, the x86/x64 thing.
Well, make your own mods and compile it for all platforms. Or put source on github and let maintainers do their thing. That's if anyone in 2016 will care for it.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 25, 2016, 02:45:18 PMBut that is not trivial to do, since you require id's SDK and a fullblown IDE to compile them.
Doesn't sounds like you have a clue. You don't need IDE to compile on Linux. dhewm3 uses cmake as I recall, which you run on Linux to generate makefile and the use cmd line gcc to build engine and game lib.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 25, 2016, 02:45:18 PMThat's why the C++ thing is a headache. Switching to a dynamically interpreted language would solve this. It's what makes modding for Doom attractive; you make the mod, you distribute it, and people play it. No fuss.
Lol, ok.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 25, 2016, 02:45:18 PMAbsolutely. So let's do it.
Sure - roll up your sleeves and start working on it. Once you have major chunk of work done, maybe you'll find some like-minded individuals who can help you. That's just how it works in modding. There are too many people with ideas who don't have anything to show for. Even if you get a lot of work done, you might end up still working alone. While some people get stuck in time, the world goes on. Most people use Unity/UE4/whatever nowadays or mod modern games.
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 03:10:07 PMstandard motorsep positivity
How's your idTech game coming along?
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 03:10:07 PM
Well, make your own mods and compile it for all platforms. Or put source on github and let maintainers do their thing. That's if anyone in 2016 will care for it.
Plenty of people care about Doom mods, because a lot of them are genuinely great fun to play. I'm sorry for bringing up Brutal Doom so much, but it's the best example I can think of. That mod gets so many of the details right. It makes you feel like a demon-slaughtering badass. The New Doom took a lot of cues from Brutal Doom, the glory kills for one.
It's the details, man.
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 03:10:07 PM
Doesn't sounds like you have a clue. You don't need IDE to compile on Linux. dhewm3 uses cmake as I recall, which you run on Linux to generate makefile and the use cmd line gcc to build engine and game lib.
Good. I'm glad to be wrong. I haven't had the time yet to really investigate this, and wherever I looked, I was told I needed Visual Studio. So plain ol' CMake/make is sufficient. That's good to know.
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 03:10:07 PM
Lol, ok.
... what?
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 03:10:07 PM
Sure - roll up your sleeves and start working on it. Once you have major chunk of work done, maybe you'll find some like-minded individuals who can help you. That's just how it works in modding. There are too many people with ideas who don't have anything to show for. Even if you get a lot of work done, you might end up still working alone. While some people get stuck in time, the world goes on. Most people use Unity/UE4/whatever nowadays or mod modern games.
I've begun working on it. I've been learning how the engine works, and I'm getting into mapping. I've already done some small changes that make the game more fun. I intend to make it as fun to play as I possibly can.
You don't seem to be very enthusiastic about idTech4. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
Quote from: bkt on May 25, 2016, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: motorsep on May 25, 2016, 03:10:07 PMstandard motorsep positivity
How's your idTech game coming along?
Since when am I referring to myself in the 3rd person? :P
It's not. I gave up on idTech 4 and as I promised, I released source code with SWF menus and all: https://github.com/motorsep/StormEngine2
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 25, 2016, 04:28:22 PMYou don't seem to be very enthusiastic about idTech4. Are you sure you're on the right forum?
I am not enthusiastic about the engine, after spending several years and several thousand bucks improving it, and getting nowhere. Plus, no one wants to work with it, even for money. I've worked with 2 ex-ID guys and ex-HH guy, and they advised me to drop the engine and use something else (one helped me with advise, another one actually coded a lot of stuff and just couldn't bear working with the tech at some point).
I've written a lot about the engine in the past and I am not going to do it again as devilz will have another anxiety attack >:D
To put it simply - if you want to make Doom 3 Expansion pack, it's fine. If you want to make something beyond what Doom 3 offers, give everyone a favor and work on it behind closed doors or just do something else in life.
To answer your second half of the questions, yes, I am in the right forum. I don't live here, just visit from time to time to bitch-slap morons like devilz and give some practical advise to lost souls who thinks idTech 4 is _the_ engine to make games with (commercial games that is).
I'm even not always understand you guys, but I must to say it.
I was inspired by such sites as iddevnet, modwiki and doom3world.
It was wonderful sites and a real community as I want to believe.
At now I feel the disunity and deceived expectations. And it's very demoralizing.
Some of you have done really wonderful things.
Perhaps the engine is bad for Commerce (I mean direct selling in the current market) but (I want to believe again) it is possible to create good things.
In fact, it's looking like the post of faith.
motorsep: i added you on steam. could you please accept? thx
Quote from: vladdrak on May 26, 2016, 11:10:23 AM
motorsep: i added you on steam. could you please accept? thx
At work right now. I'll check Steam at evening, if I have time. If not, then on weekend.
Quote from: motorsep on May 26, 2016, 12:25:01 PM
You are blind obviously. He wants to rework the engine. Not to make mods using what engine already offers.
.. what are you talking about, seriously?
Stop putting words in my mouth. Also, please refrain from joining the discussion if all you want to do is make life harder for us.
I do not want to rework the engine. I never claimed I want to rework the engine.
I have said that it would be in the community's best interest to prevent fragmentation. It's small enough as it is, and a crucial goal is to have a single source port, that supports both Classic and BFG Doom. (I'm a classic guy, and I regret id chose to release the BFG edition, but there you go).
Also, looking at the Dark Mod, that's also not what I would like to go after. I'm interested in Doom. I want to put some serious effort into making a mod so good that it'll receive attention by the gaming press, one that'll convince people to give Doom 3 a second try.
And, if you'll allow me to sound really pretentious for just a moment, I know exactly what this mod needs to do. I'm just not experienced enough yet with the tech, and it'll take time. I have time, and I'm motivated as fuck.
Doom 3 simply isn't popular, because it's generally perceived to be a Doom game in name only. It's slow-paced, there's little room to move around in, the weapons aren't nearly as satisfying to use as they were in the other games, there's too few monsters and they're too hard to kill. That's the basic outline.
Have u tried out my mod Eocene? It does the best that can be done with Doom 3's map layouts and somebody made an addon for it that greatly increases the monster count. Plus weapon upgrades galore. Version 7 will boast even more.
Quote from: VGames on May 26, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
Have u tried out my mod Eocene? It does the best that can be done with Doom 3's map layouts and somebody made an addon for it that greatly increases the monster count. Plus weapon upgrades galore. Version 7 will boast even more.
I'd like to. Do you have a (preferably) 64-bit Linux version available, or a link to the source code and build instructions? :)
No my source will be released when version 7 is released. Why people use Linux I don't understand. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Quote from: VGames on May 26, 2016, 03:46:52 PM
No my source will be released when version 7 is released. Why people use Linux I don't understand. Sorry for the inconvenience.
... and that's why Doom 3 modding would hugely benefit from implementing a scripting language. Take away the platform dependency.
And I'm not going to start a OS flamewar here, but I cannot stand working with Windows. I much prefer Linux for a huge list of reasons. Let's keep it at that.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 26, 2016, 03:54:08 PM
And I'm not going to start a OS flamewar here, but I cannot stand working with Windows. I much prefer Linux for a huge list of reasons. Let's keep it at that.
Then perhaps you'll be delighted to know that I just recently ported the latest internal devbuild of
MCS (http://www.moddb.com/mods/mars-city-security) to Linux :)
(http://www.scared-pixel-studios.com/public/images/mcs/MCS.v1.2.2.5@Linux.jpg)
Looks great. Where can I download the Linux version?
I just tried getting Last Man Standing to work, which is advertised as Linux-compatible.
But it isn't. I get a whole bunch of script errors when I try to launch it.
I'm also looking into the dhewm3-mods repository thing, but I cannot get that to work either. It fails at the cmakelists step.
God damn, what a fucked up situation.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 26, 2016, 04:51:23 PM
Looks great. Where can I download the Linux version?
The cross-platform-multiplayer release of MCS is scheduled for the next public update (the internal build already runs fine and stable and I use the Linux dedicated server on a daily basis for cross-platform-multiplayer testing purposes).
I usually don't give out release dates to my projects and stick to the "When it's done" credo but it would surprise me if the update wouldn't be released before this coming Fall...
...which reminds me that I still have a shitload of features to check on my to-do list.
So, I've just been enticed to play two different mods, by two different people, that I actually cannot play, on the same page.
On top of that, I'm lost following the cryptic instructions attempting to compile mods that DO have their source available.
And I've just wasted half an hour trying to get a mod to work that's advertised as Linux compatible.
THIS IS STARTING TO PISS ME THE FUCK OFF.
Why in the holy name of FUCK aren't your projects on Github?
What's with all the secrecy?
Welcome to the world of Doom 3. Now you see why I am the way I am?!
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 26, 2016, 05:18:45 PM
So, I've just been enticed to play two different mods, by two different people, that I actually cannot play, on the same page.
On top of that, I'm lost following the cryptic instructions attempting to compile mods that DO have their source available.
And I've just wasted half an hour trying to get a mod to work that's advertised as Linux compatible.
THIS IS STARTING TO PISS ME THE FUCK OFF.
Why in the holy name of FUCK aren't your projects on Github?
What's with all the secrecy?
Firstly, it's a bit ironic we are talking about this when the thread creator isn't even actively modding it seems anymore. Second, the author to the most popular mod/mod-base ( Sikkpin ) is from what I understand missing in action. Thankfully he released the source code so it could be a base for many mods. In fact, it seems like if it isn't based in Sikkmod no one really wants to touch it. I made the mistake of modding the Doom 3 SDK directly and not Sikkmod so a lot my work is totally incompatible with other mods. To be honest it has been really discouraging to see work I feel is 10x better than previous works get so overlooked. That's alright though people don't have to be interested if they aren't it's just makes me feel sad sometimes :-\
I'd love to do more modding but the time investment is too demanding, and a new scripting language wouldn't fix that. Doom 3 already comes with a fairly robust scripting language but ultimately C++ is where all the magic happens. Even John Carmack said having things like the AI and weapon logic in script was a bad idea which is why Rage dropped that design. I think it would be a very difficult challenge to create a compiler for the script like QuakeC but I would commend anyone who would be willing to try it. Would people use it though? Scripting isn't done as much as outsiders might think either.
That being said, I really appreciate what people are doing now. Keep up the hard work and continue making great stuff if you still are.
I use ModDB that's why nothing I have is on github. When I release my source I will include a tutorial on how to set it up and compile it and what software I use to do so.
Phrozo I'm sure you didn't add so much to the source to not go back and port it all over to Sikkmod source. I did it for ROE and I even transferred all of Sikkmod 1.2 content over to ROE Sikkmod 1.1. So its not that tough. Just time consuming. If u want attention for your work then make the transfer. I think many would be happy u did.
This community seems to be broken to the bone to the point where it simply stops being fun to post or share anything with anyone here.
Instead one has to constantly fight its way through a small group of trolls while most of the time seriously questioning the cost-benefit ratio. It's usually a bad sign if talking about your work costs almost as much effort as actually working on it.
Many guys like me here are not driven by the delusion to compete with AAA companies and titles nor do we chase the highly unrealistic illusion to become commercially successful indie companies.
We create Mods and Total Conversions for the very same reason that got us into modding games in the first place: To enjoy our creations with relatives, friends and people online (who potentially can become new friends in the process).
And yet a small group of guys here tries to force its "backwards-assed" views and beliefs of how mods, total conversions and game projects are supposed to be made, released and open-sourced without having achieved anything of significance themselves.
off: i wonder how something such as sven coop could be made for doom3. MCS has advanced netcode, right? couldn't that be a base for a project like that? look at the source engine. its greatest achievement is garry's mod. people love doom/quake/half-life not because of the main game, but rather because they see them as a sandboxing tool. that's what we need. alas it requires dedicated engineers on board for that to achieve. if that doesn't lead to a drastic change as far as the community growth goes, than nothing ever will. that way doom3 has a chance to ascend into the oldiebutgoldie-state.
(phrozo's tweaks would also make a nice foundation imho.)
Quote from: vladdrak on May 27, 2016, 06:39:35 AM
off: i wonder how something such as sven coop could be made for doom3. MCS has advanced netcode, right? couldn't that be a base for a project like that? look at the source engine. its greatest achievement is garry's mod. people love doom/quake/half-life not because of the main game, but rather because they see them as a sandboxing tool. that's what we need. alas it requires dedicated engineers on board for that to achieve. if that doesn't lead to a drastic change as far as the community growth goes, than nothing ever will.
(phrozo's tweaks also would make a nice foundation)
Good call. That's what I have in my mind as well, to make Doom3 a sandbox experience, akin to GMod.
Ideally, it would combine all the best features from every mod out there, while remaining fully modular. Every feature should be standalone and optional, and easily configurable from within Doom3, with full credits to each individual developer.
Every module would come in it's own .pk4 file.
- coop.pk4 (adds co-op feature from OpenCoop or Last Man Standing)
- bots.pk4 (adds bot support)
- textures.pk4 (hi-res textures)
- gfx.pk4 (improved shaders and effects from Sikkmod, Phrozo's stuff)
- weapons.pk4 (tweaks all the guns, with faster weapon switching and reload animations, iron sights, alternate fire, punchier sounds, grenade throw hotkey...)
- monsters.pk4 (faster monsters, improved AI, higher damage output, better sounds)
- melee.pk4 (improved melee combat, akin to Doom 4's glory kills)
- gore.pk4 (improved blood and gore)
- quake4.pk4 (Quake 4 content)
- prey.pk4 (Prey content)
- etqw.pk4 (ETQW content)
- maps.pk4 ('Official' map pack, developed with the improved features in mind)
- music.pk4 (Doom 4 soundtrack)
And, importantly, the project would be fully open and inviting to people wanting to contribute. Everybody would win, and Doom 3 will be an awesome, open, and fully free gaming experience (provided you have the content)
Then all we need is a decent trailer on Youtube, which is so good that word of mouth starts spreading.
This is what Doom 3 needs. Plain and simple.
A lot of the required content is already out there. The biggest challenge will be to convince the original developers to donate their code to the larger cause.
Let's see anyone disagree with this.
i second all of the above.
Quoteand Doom 3 will be an awesome, open, and fully free gaming experience (provided you have the content).
the funny thing is that as far as 3d-rendition + speed + modularity + portability + foss go, doom3 is already/still the best. it's a goldmine actually.
for starters we should open a Tools/Utils thread i guess, followed by Tuts and Techniques.
Well, I cleaned out the thread of non-growing type stuff. Please keep things civil. Thanks kids.
Quote from: EoceneMiacid on May 27, 2016, 07:23:38 AM
- quake4.pk4 (Quake 4 content)
- prey.pk4 (Prey content)
- etqw.pk4 (ETQW content)
- music.pk4 (Doom 4 soundtrack)
I believe using and sharing assets from games we may or may not own is bogus. This is
not what a mod community is.
I acknowledge that mods have done this kind of thing before, but I would never be part of something like that.
If there were some way to verify that people own the games that they are using content from, that would be fine, but there won't be and let's be honest, that's not the intention.
**edit**
I don't mean to disagree with your point generally. Apart from the part about distributing copyrighted material, I think the idea about modular .pk4's is a good one.
Should have elaborated further.
quake4.pk4, prey.pk4 and etqw.pk4 would serve as an interface to an existing installation of that particular game.
It adds an extra tab to the options window, where the path to the base folder of that game must be entered. That content would then be made available in Doom3.
The paks themselves wouldn't contain the assets, because that's clearly a violation.
Oh, cool then. Yes that would be pretty neat indeed. I am curious if there are compatibility issues between the different games' content? Would you basically be making new entity definitions and script objects in the Doom 3 mod paks that would access the external assets? I would be interested to see this work. I would also make sure that all the companies were cool with this.
All the id tech 4 games used different basic assets with some exceptions (like noclip/clip textures, some script/def names, etc). I'm thinking the biggest issue is that, unlike Doom 2 engine which ran everything Doom did, ETQW is different from Quake 4 which is different then Doom3/Prey which is different from Brink engine's. You'd need the features of all the games in one exe which Doom1/2 didn't need to do. That could be a programming nightmare.
you might wanna add Wolfenstein 2009
Quote from: The Happy Friar on May 27, 2016, 08:49:05 AM
Well, I cleaned out the thread of non-growing type stuff. Please keep things civil. Thanks kids.
Thank you and sorry for my reaction is not everyday that i behave like that.
Though I agree with what Friar said about the technical realization of such a project, I'd welcome anything that bears the potential of growing this community.
I personally think the idea of an idtech4 starter devkit a la "building a devkit for GPL" (http://idtechforums.fuzzylogicinc.com/index.php?topic=436.msg4840;topicseen#msg4840) could also suit as a promising way to attract more people to idtech4.
BFG is indeed a good engine, it even has stereo 3D support as a bonus, but imo there's some things that need resolving before it becomes a viable replacement to vanilla, one make a easier way to make GUI's, flash is fine but there's no tutorial out there on how to make even a simple fullscreen GUI in flash work for BFG (https://www.itechfy.com/) (i'm looking at you motorsep, want the rest of the modders to share? Why not be the first?), two a place online where people can see the differences in shaders, material support and scripting, if any, between BFG and Vanilla.
Quote from: djamelo on November 01, 2019, 12:08:02 PM
... i'm looking at you motorsep ...
Don't look at me, I've released SWF sources with StormEngine 2 looooong time ago, unlike oneofthe8devilz who hasn't released source for his networking code improvements (and will never release it, unless you probably pay him to do so).
Regarding BFG you can always check this one too: http://idtechforums.fuzzylogicinc.com/index.php?topic=653.0 and http://idtechforums.fuzzylogicinc.com/index.php?topic=694.0
Quote from: motorsep on November 03, 2019, 01:25:41 AM
Quote from: djamelo on November 01, 2019, 12:08:02 PM
... i'm looking at you motorsep ...
Don't look at me, I've released SWF sources with StormEngine 2 looooong time ago, unlike oneofthe8devilz who hasn't released source for his networking code improvements (and will never release it, unless you probably pay him to do so).
I fail to see how
djamelo would benefit from me releasing the MCS source in order to create flash based GUIs within Doom3BFG...
And besides that, didn't you already state countless times what an outdated dead-end engine idtech4 is, so why bringing this up in late 2019 for the Nth time ?
Seriously... you need to learn to let go.
Thanks for demonstrating why this community won't grow :-)