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Messages - rebarkillburst

#1
Haunting of Deck 12 / Re: Re: New Doom (2016) Thread
April 02, 2016, 01:16:43 PM
im on the wait and see approach with this new doom.  Ive heard some ppl calling it "Halo with a doom skin". I'll wait a year after it's released, and see if the MP still has players. 
#2
Quote from: argoon on March 16, 2016, 07:58:26 PM
Quote from: motorsep on March 16, 2016, 02:31:20 PM
Literally, UE4, Unity and now CE leave idTech 4 in the dust no matter how you look at it. I am obviously talking about using idTech 4 for commercial game development.

So... why are you here again?

To say F you to ppl like you and everybody in here. He said that, did you skip it? :) 
#3
id Tech 6 SnapMap / Re: SnapMap on Facebook
November 25, 2015, 10:25:05 PM
I'm interested but I wont use fb. I'll stick with these forums.
#4
That probuilder tool for unity looks interesting, you said its coming to UE4 too? Is it as simple and fluid with brush editing as gtk? What did id tech 5 use?
#5
Another reason I inclined to try idtech4 was because of the editor itself. I'm very much acquainted with gtkradiant, and yes, I understand it mostly supports id tech 3 games, like rtcw, but i think gtkradiant is much simpler to use to me, than Unreal 4's ugly editor. I find it difficult to use.  As to commercial use of idtech4, i think that there was going to be a game that was going to use idtech 4, i think it was called Quadrilateral Cowboy. Was that released?
#6
Well, i understand that AAA assets cost a lot, im mostly referring to whether this engine could support assets that could be around today's standards. Doesnt haven to be AAA. 
#7
Looks interesting, but it still looks kinda similar to quake. This is a commercial game, and thus it would look like a AAA-looking game. Does this engine support art assets at AAA or close level?  Does this engine support an expansive, large levels? It'll have mostly melee combat, but there's ranged weapons by means of spells, it'll have full player awareness, as in your character isnt just a floating gun or floating set of hands. That will allow you to finish off enemies when theyre down.  It'll have inventory, items to pickup, lore to read, which i am working on intensively. But it'll still be a mostly linear fps, any other kind of game like an rpg is too overwhelming to make at least as of now.
#8
Quote from: MrC on November 08, 2015, 08:05:05 PM
Quote from: rebarkillburst on November 08, 2015, 06:47:02 PM
Quote from: The Happy Friar on November 07, 2015, 08:31:27 AM
Torque is open source (MIT) and it doesn't include AI, but you can buy AI for it for under $100 (maybe $70).  I like torque.  I am slowing learning it because it does a lot of what I want and doesn't cost royalties.

I like D3 tech and know it pretty well, but the lack of AI/weapon/script code vs other id engines turns me off to it.  IE you could take Darkplaces and make a whole game w/o touching the code. You could take Knightmare Q2 and remake HL1 if you wanted.  You could take Q3A (not familiar with those engines) and make a game from that.  With D3 you need lots of coding experience, or an experienced coder, to get off the ground.

That's the reason for the recommendation of other engines if you're not doing a mod, because the other engines have more support on the coding end.

Would using either darkplaces or those other engines be reasonable to make a commercial game? Heard that darkplaces is very versatile but isnt it based on the first quake?

Some more information about your project might help aid you in this process, if I understand correctly so far you want to make an something along the lines of an id game, is that old id or new id? I.e Doom/Quake fast combat or Doom 3 slower linear survival horror or hub based FPS with complex story etc...?

DarkPlaces is rooted in Quake 1, yes. It's also a mish-mash of Quake 2 and 3. If you're going to use DP you might as well take advantage of Q3BSP and Q3Map2. The use of lightmaps and realtime lighting (edited in-game) make it more performance friendly. Programming will be done using QuakeC which has been criticized for being limiting but it has also been greatly extended upon, it's also pretty easy to use and a good starting point for learning procedural programming. As for starter code, you get all the Quake 1 QC code with server side AI so if you're doing a coop game this is a big plus. Speaking of which, there are lots of cool QC resources to get you on your way, https://www.quaddicted.com/webarchive/minion.planetquake.gamespy.com/tutorial/main.htm
http://www.insideqc.com/qctut/
A few areas you'll find lacking compared to D3 is a more robust system for dealing with skeletal animation (blending layers) and root motion movement. Also, single threading vs. that nice multi-threaded jobs system that BFG does. Physics works through ODE but so far ragdolls are the topic of much debate, as in they're technically supported but there's no real system or anything past some early tests to actually take advantage of anything that complex - mostly a tools / docs / code related issue. You'll also have limited shader support, Q3 shader that is compared to D3's material scripts as most of the materials in DP are done through a naming convention of the image files themselves. I.e: rock1.tga, rock1_norm.tga, rock1_gloss.tga. If you want to reuse textures then you'll end up with a lot of duplicate image files sitting around taking up unnecessary memory - this has been one of my biggest gripes with the engine. Anyway for more information read dpextensions.qc included pretty much in every distribution.

Is DP a viable option to create a commercial product? Sure. The engine might not be the issue here, are you yourself ready to undertake such a task? Or do you think perhaps you should get in some modding time first?

If this is one one your first commercial projects I would say aim small and this is where the whole Unity or UE4 recommendation comes in. Follow some of their starter tutorials, perhaps take them a bit further and ship something. Unity has some very nice starter tutorials for all kinds of different games that help get you familiar with different types of controls and a game manager like a Space Shooter or Roll-a-Ball although with Unity 5 there's some outdated code in those tuts but a quick search will get you going again on some of the changed API.

Well, yes, both old and new id as in fast combat, but with additional perks like different melee attacks, an additional iron-sight like look, and such. I'm trying to pull off a fps but with magic, spell casting, and such replacing weapons.  Like hexen, and such.
#9
Quote from: The Happy Friar on November 07, 2015, 08:31:27 AM
Torque is open source (MIT) and it doesn't include AI, but you can buy AI for it for under $100 (maybe $70).  I like torque.  I am slowing learning it because it does a lot of what I want and doesn't cost royalties. 

I like D3 tech and know it pretty well, but the lack of AI/weapon/script code vs other id engines turns me off to it.  IE you could take Darkplaces and make a whole game w/o touching the code. You could take Knightmare Q2 and remake HL1 if you wanted.  You could take Q3A (not familiar with those engines) and make a game from that.  With D3 you need lots of coding experience, or an experienced coder, to get off the ground.

That's the reason for the recommendation of other engines if you're not doing a mod, because the other engines have more support on the coding end.

Would using either darkplaces or those other engines be reasonable to make a commercial game? Heard that darkplaces is very versatile but isnt it based on the first quake?
#10
Quote from: MrC on November 06, 2015, 01:48:02 PM
Motorsep: That may be but it's the truth, even my initial reaction was that of shock but after some thought I couldn't help but agree with you on the alternative technology suggestion, especially if it's a project from scratch.

rebarkillburst: Motorsep released a GPL game using DarkPlaces (an idTech engine) and would certainly be the person to ask on these matters and as far as I know is still using a modified idTech 4.5 for an upcoming title. I'd suggest, if time is on your side to wait for Storm Engine as it seems to be one of the more complete BFG engine projects out there with tools and everything.

Im in early stages, yes. Is that the game he was working on using bfg engine? Steel storm 2?
#11
Quote from: VGames on November 06, 2015, 10:18:33 AM
Yeah I was thinking UE4 too? For a full on brand new game I don't think there's any other way to go. Unity is good but I'm always hearing something bad about it one way or another. UE4 for sure.

Looks like a lot has changed in the idtech boards. back with d3w, unreal engine 3 wasnt usually called real lagger 3. Im surprised UE4 getting that much support.  This game im trying to pull is somewhat close to id games, as in influenced by them, and as such idtech4.5 seemed the way to go. The entire industry either uses UE4 or Unity, and i frankly dont like either. Is source 2 a considerable option?
#12
Quote from: motorsep on November 06, 2015, 02:44:46 PM
If there is a small team, familiar with the tech and has working art pipeline, limited resources and time on their hands, then maybe it's ok to go with idTech 4. The main plus is that gameplay logic is in place already. It's something you don't have in Unity / UE4 and it's a lot of work to put it all together. The argument that Assets Store has a lot of stuff that can be used is flawed, because a lot of those assets don't play nicely with each other, or stitching them into coherent gameplay framework would be problematic.

While GPL can be used in commercial projects, you are doomed to be bound to PC/Linux platform. And believe me, right now and in the next few years, PC is the platform you don't want to be on, unless you don't mind massive trolling, oversaturated market, dealing with unresponsive support on Steam, lack of marketing opportunities, etc.

If you don't know the tech (Doom 3 that is), if you have resources, if you really want (and capable of) to make commercial project, go with Unity and make something that works on Windows, Android/iOS and release it. Make it small and just right to make some cash. Then use that cash to build a slightly bigger game with some replay value. Rinse / repeat until you can afford to pass certification on consoles. Then go there. 

If your released game gathers sizable audience, then stop there and build on it.

The time when you could just release something on Steam and make some money is long gone.

Btw, VR is the next frontier. So you might want to skip everything else altogether and focus on VR.

btw, dont bfg edition support VR?
#13
Quote from: motorsep on November 06, 2015, 02:44:46 PM
If there is a small team, familiar with the tech and has working art pipeline, limited resources and time on their hands, then maybe it's ok to go with idTech 4. The main plus is that gameplay logic is in place already. It's something you don't have in Unity / UE4 and it's a lot of work to put it all together. The argument that Assets Store has a lot of stuff that can be used is flawed, because a lot of those assets don't play nicely with each other, or stitching them into coherent gameplay framework would be problematic.

While GPL can be used in commercial projects, you are doomed to be bound to PC/Linux platform. And believe me, right now and in the next few years, PC is the platform you don't want to be on, unless you don't mind massive trolling, oversaturated market, dealing with unresponsive support on Steam, lack of marketing opportunities, etc.

If you don't know the tech (Doom 3 that is), if you have resources, if you really want (and capable of) to make commercial project, go with Unity and make something that works on Windows, Android/iOS and release it. Make it small and just right to make some cash. Then use that cash to build a slightly bigger game with some replay value. Rinse / repeat until you can afford to pass certification on consoles. Then go there. 

If your released game gathers sizable audience, then stop there and build on it.

The time when you could just release something on Steam and make some money is long gone.

Btw, VR is the next frontier. So you might want to skip everything else altogether and focus on VR.

Another "PC is dead" argument? I'd say the appstores are dead.  It isnt possible to make money there anymore, and I dont like the kind of games there.
#14
Quote from: motorsep on November 06, 2015, 10:06:50 AM
Quote from: rebarkillburst on November 05, 2015, 04:44:22 PM
Been trying to get this pet project, but i'd like to hear opinions on it by the members of this community. What would the commercial possibilities of a new AAA title coming nowadays using idtech4.5?  Would there be enough resources, talent, and would it make any sense commercially to do it ?

What kind of engine is that?

Besides TheHappyFriar mentioned, getting engine to work on most modern PCs as stable as humanly possible will be another challenge. If you are aiming for multiplayer game, you are out of luck with this engine, unless you have good programmers on the team. If you are talking about Doom 3 BFG engine, it's another can of worms to deal with.

Not to mention you still have to make art assets.

So, if you have top tier gameplay, networking and rendering software engineers on the team and 5-10 artists, everything is possible :) But then you might want to ask yourself the following question - why not to use Unity or UE4 o.O

Yes, I was talking about the d3 bfg.  I've been working on the gameplay, detailing it and such.  Yes, im aware i have to make the assets.
#15
Been trying to get this pet project, but i'd like to hear opinions on it by the members of this community. What would the commercial possibilities of a new AAA title coming nowadays using idtech4.5?  Would there be enough resources, talent, and would it make any sense commercially to do it ?