Author Topic: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?  (Read 2603 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

motorsep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: +74/-128
  • Artist
    • View Profile
    • Kot in Action Creative Artel
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2015, 01:38:40 PM »
"1996" Lightmaps in 2015:

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?77135-Unreal-Bathroom-with-Shield-port

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?72638-Loft-in-London


I don't optimize lighting in id Tech 4 (or rather BFG engine). Dmap clips overlapping light volumes anyway. Modern hardware runs unoptimized maps just fine (unless lighting is _really_ crazy).

Lightmapped games look really much better than any of id tech 4 games. It's just a fact, even if you go stylized with art style.

trebor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +14/-7
  • Boomstick Veteran
    • View Profile
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2015, 02:06:33 PM »
I'd like to see id Tech 4 / BFG getting any reasonable real-time GI solution any time soon, optimized to run well on average PC. It ain't gonna happen. Even shadow mapping in BFG has quite a few issues tr3b hasn't been able to solve. There is a good chance that engine has to be rewritten in parts to accommodate, properly, modern real-time GI.

Guys, buy me time or use Unreal 4 :)

https://www.patreon.com/RobertBeckebans

trebor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +14/-7
  • Boomstick Veteran
    • View Profile
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2015, 02:12:04 PM »
Concerning lightmaps ... this is Q3A/XreaL style vertex lighting that I added for the mobile path

http://imgur.com/a/wPFV5

motorsep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: +74/-128
  • Artist
    • View Profile
    • Kot in Action Creative Artel
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2015, 02:50:34 PM »
I'd like to see id Tech 4 / BFG getting any reasonable real-time GI solution any time soon, optimized to run well on average PC. It ain't gonna happen. Even shadow mapping in BFG has quite a few issues tr3b hasn't been able to solve. There is a good chance that engine has to be rewritten in parts to accommodate, properly, modern real-time GI.

Guys, buy me time or use Unreal 4 :)

https://www.patreon.com/RobertBeckebans

Ouch, graphics development ain't cheap  :(

The Happy Friar

  • Happy Happy Joy Joy
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 858
  • Karma: +42/-4
  • Semi-Newbie.
    • View Profile
    • EarthQuake
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2015, 03:50:00 PM »
Not D3/UE4/etc. tech, but Berserker Q2 combines Lightmaps + real time.  Any RT lights override what the lightmaps rendered out, so that shadow caused by a wall can be lit up & light areas can be made darker.  Entities have real time shadows  and there's the option for the world or entities only displaying them.

The advantage (when I was playing with it) was I could render my static sun for outdoor scenes & my entities (projectiles & the like) would display like I expected them too. 

I find setting up a map for a decent render time with lightmaps just as cumbersome as setting up for efficient real time lighting and I still prefer the D3 look over the static lightmap look of modern games.  I'd say it comes down to personal taste & the atmosphere you want to convey.

trebor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +14/-7
  • Boomstick Veteran
    • View Profile
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 03:55:05 PM »
I think this realtime GI technique is very cool and it is way faster than voxel cone tracing

« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 06:23:35 PM by trebor »

motorsep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: +74/-128
  • Artist
    • View Profile
    • Kot in Action Creative Artel
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 04:08:01 PM »
I think this realtime GI technique is very cool and it is way faster than voxel cone tracing


Not showing :/

motorsep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: +74/-128
  • Artist
    • View Profile
    • Kot in Action Creative Artel
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 04:30:23 PM »
Not D3/UE4/etc. tech, but Berserker Q2 combines Lightmaps + real time.  Any RT lights override what the lightmaps rendered out, so that shadow caused by a wall can be lit up & light areas can be made darker.  Entities have real time shadows  and there's the option for the world or entities only displaying them.

The advantage (when I was playing with it) was I could render my static sun for outdoor scenes & my entities (projectiles & the like) would display like I expected them too. 

I find setting up a map for a decent render time with lightmaps just as cumbersome as setting up for efficient real time lighting and I still prefer the D3 look over the static lightmap look of modern games.  I'd say it comes down to personal taste & the atmosphere you want to convey.

The problem with Q2/Q3 based engines is that there are no good tools to bake lightmaps. For D3 any 3D app will do. Better, faster, more efficient.

Nothing cumbersome about light maps, especially when working in Blender. Turn on real-time preview and tweak lighting until satisfied. Set to bake and go get some tea/coffee/dinner/etc. Save texture and all done.

Again, since currently it's more theory than practice at this time (and there is no good way to incorporate dynamic shadows into the thought out setup), there might be some gotchas that aren't obvious to me currently :)

Don't get me wrong, having IBL probes and SSAO would be cool. Having real-time GI would be even better. It's just have to be well integrated into the engine, and optimized. No one out there will do that. So realistically, it's easier / less expensive to come up with lightmapping solution for certain projects.

trebor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +14/-7
  • Boomstick Veteran
    • View Profile
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 06:24:47 PM »
I updated the link. The full presentation is at http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/DeepGBuffer14/

motorsep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: +74/-128
  • Artist
    • View Profile
    • Kot in Action Creative Artel
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2015, 07:04:47 PM »
I updated the link. The full presentation is at http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/papers/DeepGBuffer14/

Quite interesting. Does implementing G-Buffer automatically mean that deferred rendering pipeline has to be implemented ?

trebor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Karma: +14/-7
  • Boomstick Veteran
    • View Profile
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2015, 07:22:57 PM »
No I think the G-Buffer is only used for the indirect lighting term. It is the first technique that runs within 3 milliseconds here. All other realtime GI demos ran like shit on my system.

motorsep

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 967
  • Karma: +74/-128
  • Artist
    • View Profile
    • Kot in Action Creative Artel
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 07:26:29 PM »
Cool :)

Strangely, it crashes here: http://www.pasteall.org/59975

oneofthe8devilz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Karma: +93/-84
  • Doom Newbie
    • View Profile
    • Scared Pixel Studios
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 07:46:19 PM »
Nice, it runs quite fast on my machine...

Though I still have trouble to get used to all the latest "screenspace gfx hackery"... where the action has to happen on screen in order to be able to be processed...
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 07:56:11 PM by oneofthe8devilz »
I got six little friends and they all run faster than you ;)


Check out our mods at
moddb or the SPS Homepage


The Happy Friar

  • Happy Happy Joy Joy
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 858
  • Karma: +42/-4
  • Semi-Newbie.
    • View Profile
    • EarthQuake
Re: Surface (material) that doesn't cast shadow, but receives shadows?
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 08:17:52 PM »
The problem with Q2/Q3 based engines is that there are no good tools to bake lightmaps. For D3 any 3D app will do. Better, faster, more efficient.

Nothing cumbersome about light maps, especially when working in Blender. Turn on real-time preview and tweak lighting until satisfied. Set to bake and go get some tea/coffee/dinner/etc. Save texture and all done.

I've done it with importing to to Berserker as an entity model & then the RT lights work but the current .map exporters for Blender do it pretty hacky (IE make brush soup) & then there's no way to get the baked texture on to the brush.  :(  Because of this (and Berserker always liked to crash for me) I decided any Q2 work I do should be stylized to not look anyway realistic in lighting.