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id Tech 4 (Doom3/Prey/Q4) => id Tech 4 Models and Animations => Topic started by: doom3xbox on July 17, 2016, 09:21:44 PM

Title: The md5 file
Post by: doom3xbox on July 17, 2016, 09:21:44 PM
Hi,

I read the dev site about exporting model meshes for the game. As well as animation.

I want to add a animated model into a map, will this replace an existing character? Or an actual custom should be fine, I think so.

As for exporting into md5, I tried using blender 2.63 with the export from the kats site. It doesn't work.

Reminds me a little of the ASE file and GTKradiant for a game like elite force. Not that an example file work for me at all that is. But yes, that file only worked in that format once everything was connected.

As for texturing, I'd have to load the textures I have used and place them in a textures folder in the Doom 3 folder. I've changed one of four so that isn't a problem, since they are all uv mapped.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: doom3xbox on July 18, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
I just read on a topic at the bottom of this section, that there is an up to date mesh and animation export available for version 2.76.

From what I read, they both must be exported seperately? And the amount of bones making up a skeleton should be a handful or can ten be used for example?

Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: doom3xbox on July 18, 2016, 12:24:25 PM
Well I have sixteen bones, and I added the whole skeleton with Add in the MD5 window area, and I then tried individually, they both have errors, and that was with selecting the object which is parented to the skeleton.

Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: doom3xbox on July 22, 2016, 04:50:46 PM
For anyone who has used Blender, would you like to try and get the animated enemy working in the game.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: doom3xbox on July 26, 2016, 08:29:40 AM
For anyone who can use Blender, please try and get this mesh problem sorted, working for Doom 3. I'm no good with this.

Thank you.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: doom3xbox on October 03, 2016, 09:09:30 AM
I was never able to get this into Doom 3.

Could I not use any animation in it?
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: bitterman on October 03, 2016, 11:03:02 AM
Not sure what exactly problem you have.

Try to add a new md5 model with simple armature (origin and few other bones), two anim states only (idle and walk), simple .def, .mtr and ai.script files (based on original assets). In my case that was a simple bobbing cube with moveToEnemy task.

Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: argoon on October 03, 2016, 08:45:13 PM
Is very easy to export animated md5 models, to idtech 4 after you know how (obviously).

First you need to have a working md5 exporter for blender.

Second you need to know how to correctly use that exporter, the one i use for example (the one graciously given by the arx team), needs the exported bones to be in a separated layer, layer 5 to be exact. That is so you can have a complex animating rig in one layer and only export the bones you need in another.

Third the root bone MOST be called origin, is a requirement and it is used as the root point of the animated model, as well has the "floor" for characters, so it should be put where it makes sense, like between the feet of a character. Btw i don't know if this is really necessary but i heard that you should animate the root bone as well when you want a model to move from a place to another ingame.

Four you need to make a .def file for the animated model, is a requirement, in this .def file you define, the md5 mesh and the md5 animations, this file is very important and very powerful, on it you can define from particle effects to particular sounds that come from particular bones or animation frames, plus other things.

Five a idle animation should always be defined, it can be a single frame.


About bone limitations, i'm no expert but this is what i recall, idtech 4 supports max 256 bones on a single character (the animation rig on blender or others can have more but it should be baked to 256 bones or less) and a vertex on the mesh can only be assigned to a single bone, but the bone can influence many vertex's (this is equal to many other engines), md5 only supports bone animation.   
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: TeaMonster on February 15, 2017, 02:53:20 AM
Working with MD5 is a nightmare. The Blender exporter is a major pain in the arse to work with due to it being very picky on what bones are supposed to go on which level. I was never able to get it to export anything. The only importer I ever got working works with 2.49, which is like working with a stone axe. I'm not wanting to work with an ancient version of Blender to do modding. I don't have time for the hassle.

I have no idea if you can even get exporters for 3D Max nowadays at all. This could be a major reason why modding for Doom 3 is dying out. I don't know why nobody ever used assimp to get the FBX file format working with Doom 3.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: The Happy Friar on February 15, 2017, 08:46:17 AM
I only 2.49 almost exclusively (because it's what I know and it does everything I want).  Motorsep released some good modern Blender md5 exporters.
The only bone issue I know of with md5 is that the first bone must be "origin" (no caps) & everything must be under that. 
md5 exporters have nothing to do with Doom 3 not being modded.  The largest factor is that Epic is a tech company & sells tech, so they're trying to sell tech, not a game.  id's a game company that has tech to sell, Epic switched to being a tech company a while ago & uses games as advertising, and when you want to sell tech you need people to know how to use it.

You'll have a hard time finding tools for most games that are 13 years old.  I'm not even sure you can get the free modeling program that Valve said to use with HL2 any more.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: TeaMonster on February 15, 2017, 09:28:58 AM
We were originally going to use MD5 for the new Doomsday. I'm aware of the origin bone for D3 models as I worked on the Severance mod before and I helped out the Doom Reborn guys too.

With Doomsday, The problem we had was that our animator would create a rig for the character with extra driver bones to power IK and constraints. He created a proper rig. I think we used the Arx exporter, it was a while ago,  and it was terribly finicky. It would demand that certain bones be put on certain layers. But no matter how we moved the bones around, it would always throw up errors. It would also give the error that half the vertices didn't have any weights to them, which was just preposterous.

Another problem we had, I can't remember if it was with the Arx exporter or the other one posted here, is that half the model would be the wrong scale, sort of like two-face got hit by a shrinkray.

After messing with this for a few days, we got one of the Doomsday devs to implement FBX and all our problems were solved. It's a shame as the next time someone made a Doom-in-Doom 3 mod, they would be all set to go.

The new Blender has a lot of new tools that make game modelling a LOT easier, such as cage baking, a pretty good LOD tool and a ton of new modelling tools. Transporting animations and meshes back and forth between 2.49 and 2.7 is very problematical at best.

Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: The Happy Friar on February 15, 2017, 01:07:25 PM
I've found the xReal md5 exporter the best for 2.49 D3 work (http://idtechforums.fuzzylogicinc.com/index.php?topic=17.0)

The biggest issue with md5 export/import scripts is that they're normally tailored to the dev style of the one making them.

Years ago I did some work for a small game company in breaking down the md5 format for their artists.  I found lots of things you can't do to export properly (scaling in the wrong way messes with stuff), and I've helped out some modelers/animators get stuff out.  With Blender md5 exporters you can't scale the bone, do object motions, a whole bunch of other things I don't remember, all because Maya didn't have issues with them when id make the game but other programs do.

For your layers, I'm imagining that it's so the controller bones don't get exported, just the ones bounds to the mesh.

Motorsep's the one who got md5 assets out of the newer Blender versions in to md5.  Maybe he can chime in.  :)
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: motorsep on February 15, 2017, 08:56:04 PM
Hoi hoi !

https://github.com/motorsep/blender-idtech4-md5

Haven't tested with Blender 2.78, but works with 2.77
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: The Happy Friar on February 15, 2017, 10:30:40 PM
I was looking in the steel storm 2 git, that's why I couldn't find it!  :)
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: TeaMonster on February 16, 2017, 09:37:21 AM
Thank you! I'll let you know how it goes. The guys at Doom Reborn asked for a hand with getting the Doomsday models into their mod. 

I was talking to gamehacker over at Doom Reborn and we are both wondering if the lack of exporters for MD5 is part of the reason why the modding community has pretty much dried up.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: motorsep on February 16, 2017, 09:57:02 AM
I was talking to gamehacker over at Doom Reborn and we are both wondering if the lack of exporters for MD5 is part of the reason why the modding community has pretty much dried up.

I doubt that. Making good animated models is not an easy task. Lower hanging fruit would be making new maps, new static meshes, scripting/coding improvements, making new experiences using existing animated models. So technically before you get to the point you need md5 exporter, you would have done many more mods for Doom 3. And that never happened after ~2008.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: The Happy Friar on February 16, 2017, 10:27:08 AM
I doubt that. Making good animated models is not an easy task. Lower hanging fruit would be making new maps, new static meshes, scripting/coding improvements, making new experiences using existing animated models. So technically before you get to the point you need md5 exporter, you would have done many more mods for Doom 3. And that never happened after ~2008.

I agree.  Ironically, I find it harder to get new animations in to Doom/D2 then I do Q2/3/D3 because tools now a days aren't designed for setups like that.  I've done it, just more hoops to go through.  Learning a 3D program is a PITA and players are super-critical of any releases compared to the 90's.  A lot of negativity a modder has to put up with if they want to release something now a days.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: motorsep on February 16, 2017, 10:46:41 AM
Hopefully when I have time and money, I can get SE2 converted back to support Doom 3 BFG assets and make a mod for Doom 3 :)

Alternatively if fhDOOM will get tools back, maybe I'll use fhDOOM :)
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: argoon on February 16, 2017, 12:33:15 PM
Thank you! I'll let you know how it goes. The guys at Doom Reborn asked for a hand with getting the Doomsday models into their mod. 

I was talking to gamehacker over at Doom Reborn and we are both wondering if the lack of exporters for MD5 is part of the reason why the modding community has pretty much dried up.

I already imported animated md5 models into Doom 3 successfully, albait basic ones not full characters, using the Arx team exporter and i already explained above how i did it, but again, you just need to remember, one name the first bone "origin", two put the bones you want to export into blender layer 5, this is a requirement,  this means the basic armature not the complex rig with all the control bones, shapes and modifiers, four be careful with weight painting the mesh, sometimes you think you have all bones perfectly weighted but they are not, happened to me.

Like The Happy Frier said the exporters are made in accordance to the workflow of the team that made it so if you work in a different style you will certainly find problems, we just need to adapt to it.

Learning a 3D program is a PITA and players are super-critical of any releases compared to the 90's.  A lot of negativity a modder has to put up with if they want to release something now a days.

That is true but is not why the idtech 4 modding scene is this small, the truth imo is because idtech 4 based games were not very successful, enough to amass a big following, one willing to spend time learning the tools, specially when everyone now wants a "press a button" for game, kind of tools plus the engine market imploded, making AAA engines like UE4, Cryengine, etc become cheap to use, everyone and their mother flocked to them to make the "game of their dreams".   


Alternatively if fhDOOM will get tools back, maybe I'll use fhDOOM :)

fhDoom has all the tools including a improved light editor.   
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: aphexjh on February 16, 2017, 07:19:20 PM
Speaking personally, yes a lack of .md5 exporters for Maya is THE MAIN REASON i don't do more modding. It is not for lack of looking. They're just arent good current ones out there. I would pay toward making an exporter that worked with Maya LT.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: TeaMonster on February 18, 2017, 07:38:38 AM
In 2.78 I've tried exporting one of our models - it's triangulated and has a root bone. The model exports as a 1kb file and is not visible in the viewer. I'll have to download 2.77 and try that.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: motorsep on February 18, 2017, 11:22:27 AM
In 2.78 I've tried exporting one of our models - it's triangulated and has a root bone. The model exports as a 1kb file and is not visible in the viewer. I'll have to download 2.77 and try that.

Using my md5 exporter?

Did you press Init button in your Properties to have add-on initialized and mark deforming bones as exportable ?

I believe I have a video tutorial about how to use md5 exporter.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: bitterman on November 24, 2018, 11:14:19 PM
Mostly related topic, so my queston is:

Is md5 importer for blender 2.49 don't imported an armature?
I already imports some meshes but can't find any bones.

******* upd *********

The Armature is still there but not as separated object (like 2.5x).

It can be found in wireframe mode.

Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: motorsep on November 25, 2018, 10:39:43 AM
It suppose to be like that. Armature, no matter how many bones it contains, is an "object" in Blender. So it will be selected as a single entity. You have to enter Edit or Pose mode to manipulate individual bones.
Title: Re: The md5 file
Post by: The Happy Friar on November 25, 2018, 03:52:35 PM
when importing in to 2.49 you need to increase the bone scale.  then you'll see them easier.