Author Topic: Unreal vs id Mapping  (Read 4526 times)

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BielBdeLuna

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Unreal vs id Mapping
« on: October 30, 2014, 09:44:51 AM »
ironically, technology-wise idtech 4 after compiling creates the void all around and makes the map walls function as in Unreal isn't it?

motorsep

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 09:50:54 AM »
ironically, technology-wise idtech 4 after compiling creates the void all around and makes the map walls function as in Unreal isn't it?

No. It's still a void, before and after compiling. And insides of the level have to be sealed to avoid leaks. It's more like building in space, in vacuum.

In UE, you are building a cave, carving empty spaces out of the rock. There are no leaks, nothing to seal.

BielBdeLuna

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 10:19:25 AM »
so the end result is the same and the method of construction is not.

although is true that sometimes dmap calculates the collision outside the map (if you noclip outside you can walk on top of the "sky" outside the map) which may indicate a possible tweak to dmap so it doesn't waste time on areas it's not necessary to calculate collisions.

so this shows the engine only excludes the outside walls from the rendering. the walls outside the map still exist

motorsep

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 10:23:53 AM »
so the end result is the same and the method of construction is not.

although is true that sometimes dmap calculates the collision outside the map (if you noclip outside you can walk on top of the "sky" outside the map) which may indicate a possible tweak to dmap so it doesn't waste time on areas it's not necessary to calculate collisions.

so this shows the engine only excludes the outside walls from the rendering. the walls outside the map still exist

Are you going off-topic? ;) The question is not about end result or what's being calculated or not. It's about workflow differences.

You can only walk on the sky because outer planes of sky brush are caulk, which is solid. That's what seals the level from void. There are no resources wasted on creating collisions for outside seal. And if you don't walk on it, there is no real-time calculations done either.

BielBdeLuna

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 10:31:22 AM »
 :)) more like off-map :))

aphexjh

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 11:55:05 AM »
I approve this derailment.

Unreal supports additive and subtractive level builing
additive: doom 3 style, you build brush hulls
subtractive: traditional unreal engine style, you carve spaces out of a big block

here is a thread that goes over this material https://forums.epicgames.com/threads/719092-Additive-VS-subtractive

BR: Unreal is not so bad, I feel like you must be joking me, since you would probably blow people away if you made an environment in udk, plus with all the matinee stuff, your mover/crusher/obstacle stuff would be a breeze. Unity is basically a level editor like unreal, but building entities/prefabs is integrated with the level editor. It also has a C# scripting language. It is probably the easiest editor to learn from all those I have used, but I prefer blocking in radiant. Also unity has some great built-in animation stuff like Unreal, which you might like to use. 

Unity and Unreal offer a lot of lighting options, which is really robust and something we don't have in Tech 4, but with it often comes long light compile times and lightmap atlases, so its not without its drawbacks.

The real difference between these is the amount it costs to license them. Last I checked UDK was 99$ and 30% royalties  which changes depending on how much you make and Unity is $1500.  Unity also has an amazing asset store with all kinds of plugins and asset packs, which range in price and quality. But we here love to toil, so we wouldn't want any of that anyhow.


motorsep

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 12:17:36 PM »
Unreal supports additive and subtractive level builing
additive: doom 3 style, you build brush hulls
subtractive: traditional unreal engine style, you carve spaces out of a big block


Yep, but first you carve out room, then add brushes to build inner walls/doors/etc. Unless they changed that concept in UE3/UE4.

Also, why use UDK, when UE4 is better :) And it only cost $19 per update, and 5% royalty on PC/Mac/mobile (I bet console releases have different licensing terms).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 12:21:58 PM by motorsep »

aphexjh

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 12:32:31 PM »
subtractive: traditional unreal engine style, you carve spaces out of a big block
Yep, but first you carve out room, then add brushes to build inner walls/doors/etc. Unless they changed that concept in UE3/UE4.
Edit: Yes, I didn't understand what you meant at first, but I think you are describing the basic method of creating the brushwork, which is the same in both cases.
from the thread i linked:
Quote
Not quite. Subtractive mode also is an infinite space of nothing, but a giant cube brush was added, which fills the entire space covered by the grid in the 2D viewports. It's just a hack for people who don't want to adjust to UE3 starting out with an empty world. (UE1/2 started with a filled world.) But like all hacks, this comes at a price - in this case way longer lighting build times and losing the option to create an outdoor map. And "outdoor" here means even maps with indoor-only gameplay if there are with windows.
The picture from my previous post is what it shows in the UE3 editor when you make a new map. it is also the method showed in the 3dBuzz intro to UE3 tutorials.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 05:30:03 PM by aphexjh »

BielBdeLuna

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 06:16:54 PM »
the method is not really relevant isn't it, udk and idtech-like have both demonstrated being capable of delivering great geometry for levels.

muraqqi

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2014, 05:33:04 AM »
based on my learning experiences, mapping in UE4 is more easier i think because of UE4's WYSIWYG editor. But i have a small paranoia about Unreal 4 (i will make a thread about it, because maybe it will be off topic), so maybe i will learn more about id tech 4 engine

argoon

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2014, 05:31:24 PM »
Also, why use UDK, when UE4 is better :) And it only cost $19 per update, and 5% royalty on PC/Mac/mobile (I bet console releases have different licensing terms).

UDK still has its uses and Afaik is not $19 per update but per month is a subscription like Cable TV or internet. That is expensive if all you want to do is make free mods and games.   

motorsep

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2014, 11:59:17 PM »
UDK still has its uses and Afaik is not $19 per update but per month is a subscription like Cable TV or internet. That is expensive if all you want to do is make free mods and games.

No, it's per update. Officially it's per month, but Epic confirmed when I asked - you can get UE4, unsubscribe (losing access to Git and Marketplace), keep the code and tools, and make the game, and sell it. You can also keep doing subscribe/unsubscribe only for major updates.

On the other hand Unity free is _free_ :) Making free games using UE4 ? Hmm.. Odd, considering you can't provide any mod SDK.

Also, modding is modifying existing game. There is no game coming with UE4 / Unity, so you can't really mod it ;)

argoon

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2014, 05:25:51 PM »
No, it's per update. Officially it's per month, but Epic confirmed when I asked - you can get UE4, unsubscribe (losing access to Git and Marketplace), keep the code and tools, and make the game, and sell it. You can also keep doing subscribe/unsubscribe only for major updates.

You still have to pay the 5% royalties tho. But are you sure, do they have that written somewhere? Sorry if i doubt you but that doesn't sound like something Epic would like or would let pass when they were coming up with the subscription ideia, i know i wouldn't, by letting that pass they are losing big money.  :o

motorsep

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Re: Unreal vs id Mapping
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2014, 10:19:12 AM »
You still have to pay the 5% royalties tho. But are you sure, do they have that written somewhere? Sorry if i doubt you but that doesn't sound like something Epic would like or would let pass when they were coming up with the subscription ideia, i know i wouldn't, by letting that pass they are losing big money.  :o

Yeah, but with UDK you had to pay 25% royalties o.O

Check the Answers Hub or better yet, ask Epic yourself.