Author Topic: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past  (Read 929 times)

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0x29a

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Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« on: June 27, 2016, 08:20:45 AM »
What are your thoughts on new Quake episode? 

VGames

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2016, 09:54:29 AM »
Haven't looked into it yet but I've heard about it.
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aphexjh

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 03:27:16 PM »
I haven't played much at all, but from what I have played, it is quite good. If this is meant as practice toward MG making the next Quake SP game and possibly contributing toward Quake Champions, both of those ideas would already have had my encouragment, but this is a welcome addition. It's cool that a professional studio would be a member of the mod community like this.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:31:27 PM by aphexjh »

VGames

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2016, 04:54:46 PM »
A new Quake like new Doom would be awesome.
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EoceneMiacid

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2016, 10:41:35 AM »
Played a few maps with the Action Quake mod.

Pretty well done, I have to say. Better than some of the official expansion packs I've tried. The guy clearly understands the basic rules of quality level design.

Of course, being Quake, there's no pressure to make the maps resemble anything that could exist in real-life. This is another of vanilla Doom 3's many problems; it's maps are designed to look good first and foremost, but if you strip away all that lovely detail, they are really quite poor. You just move in linear fashion from one enclosed box to another.


VGames

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2016, 12:34:45 PM »
I agree. Doom 2016 has far superior level design compared to Doom 3. If I had the know how and the time I'd love to remake Doom 3's map design to be a lot more like Doom 4's. Too allow more enemies and a much roomier style of gameplay.
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0x29a

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2016, 01:39:13 PM »
I have to disagree here, gentleman.
DooM 3 has some pretty good level design IMO. There's enough secrets and hidden places to make exploration viable, they're quite long and have just enough variation not to become boring, and small rooms / corridors add to the overall claustrophobic atmosphere.
Of course it doesn't work with vanilla and / or old school mechanics. That's the point where DooM 3 falls short. iD half-assed this design by putting typical FPS Marine into survival-horror environment. If they'd go into complete survival-horror atmosphere and mechanics game would be soooo much better. That's what I try to address in my mod - I'm completely removing every resemblance of DooM 3 to classical shooter in terms of gameplay, while enhancing it's level design by removing surplus resources. Well, at least that's the way I see it. Hopefully it'll work out.     

EoceneMiacid

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2016, 01:48:14 PM »
I agree. Doom 2016 has far superior level design compared to Doom 3. If I had the know how and the time I'd love to remake Doom 3's map design to be a lot more like Doom 4's. Too allow more enemies and a much roomier style of gameplay.

That's exactly what I'm working on. My mod will come with a fullblown single/co-op campaign, and you can bet that the maps are first and foremost designed for gameplay. Wide open spaces, lots of terrain height differences, better interconnection between areas. Of course I won't be able to resist adding pointless detail too, but I'll gladly sacrifice it if it means less mobility.

EoceneMiacid

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2016, 02:00:26 PM »
I have to disagree here, gentleman.
DooM 3 has some pretty good level design IMO. There's enough secrets and hidden places to make exploration viable, they're quite long and have just enough variation not to become boring, and small rooms / corridors add to the overall claustrophobic atmosphere.
Of course it doesn't work with vanilla and / or old school mechanics. That's the point where DooM 3 falls short. iD half-assed this design by putting typical FPS Marine into survival-horror environment. If they'd go into complete survival-horror atmosphere and mechanics game would be soooo much better. That's what I try to address in my mod - I'm completely removing every resemblance of DooM 3 to classical shooter in terms of gameplay, while enhancing it's level design by removing surplus resources. Well, at least that's the way I see it. Hopefully it'll work out.   

I thought they were great too - the first time I played them. I was just so immersed in the atmosphere. And while there are no colonies on mars just yet, if there were, I could imagine them looking more or less exactly like they do in Doom 3.

I'm not sure I agree with your view on secrets. As long as you don't rush through and take the time to look around for a bit, you won't miss a single secret. There's no hidden doors anywhere. All the 'secrets' are just hidden behind a pole, or underneath stairs, or maybe you need to crawl into a vent for a bit.

With Quake, or even the original Doom, level design was often such that it would suggest there was a secret nearby, someplace, for example by putting a powerful weapon you weren't supposed to have yet out of reach. Their maps have a real sense of exploration. Doom 3's doesn't, really: aside from the odd small detour here and there, there was little to nothing to really explore: if you played through a map, you've seen pretty much everything it had to offer. It's all small-to-medium sized, self-contained rooms, separated by doors. Realistic and gorgeous, yes; fun to go back to find secrets you've missed out on, not so much.

Every aspect about Doom 3 has been tuned for survival horror, and it especially becomes noticeable once you start modding the game. If you un-gimp the shotgun by giving it sane values, the game becomes way to easy.

VGames

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2016, 02:18:32 PM »
I have to disagree here, gentleman.
DooM 3 has some pretty good level design IMO. There's enough secrets and hidden places to make exploration viable, they're quite long and have just enough variation not to become boring, and small rooms / corridors add to the overall claustrophobic atmosphere.
Of course it doesn't work with vanilla and / or old school mechanics. That's the point where DooM 3 falls short. iD half-assed this design by putting typical FPS Marine into survival-horror environment. If they'd go into complete survival-horror atmosphere and mechanics game would be soooo much better. That's what I try to address in my mod - I'm completely removing every resemblance of DooM 3 to classical shooter in terms of gameplay, while enhancing it's level design by removing surplus resources. Well, at least that's the way I see it. Hopefully it'll work out.   

When you play Doom 2016, you will agree with me.  ;)
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motorsep

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 02:23:04 PM »
I'm completely removing every resemblance of DooM 3 to classical shooter in terms of gameplay, while enhancing it's level design by removing surplus resources.

I don't recall excess of resources available in Doom 3. I think you got it all backward - Doom (including 2016) had plenty of ammo, always.

0x29a

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Re: Episode 5: Dimension of the Past
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 06:01:44 PM »
Quote
I don't recall excess of resources available in Doom 3. I think you got it all backward - Doom (including 2016) had plenty of ammo, always.

And that's the problem with DooM 3: carrying 100 rockets somehow belongs more to Serious Sam than D3. Also, there are practically no reasons to look around and explore, as there's no problem with finding ammo. 

Quote

When you play Doom 2016, you will agree with me.  ;)

These are two completely different games, with different goals and design principles.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 07:04:56 PM by 0x29a »