New Doom (2016) Thread

[The Happy Friar]

This is over philosophising, guys. It's much simpler than all that. Indie gaming is bigger than ever now.

Indie gaming is as plentiful as the shareware days as far as I can tell.  Nobody's afriad of them, freak accidents like Minecraft are just that, freak accidents & publishers publish games with record sales every year, especially in games that don't support modding (ie consoles). 

There's just no $$ in making Doom moddable.  No good PR will come out of it, no great news story, no fans saying how awesome it is.  You will get thousands of console users using snapmap though & that's thousands more then modded D3/Rage tech.

If beth really was afraid of indies then they would worry about fallout & elder scroll series, which will most likely outsell id games any day.  They just have a large mod community that loves to produce content.  Enough content that, in theory, there's no reason to buy the sequels because you always have new content to play.

EDIT: the only big players of the shareware heyday still around are EA & Activision and the others didn't die out because of indie titles in the 90's, they died out because they ran their businesses not as good as the others.

[BloodRayne]

This is over philosophising, guys. It's much simpler than all that. Indie gaming is bigger than ever now.

Indie gaming is as plentiful as the shareware days as far as I can tell.  Nobody's afriad of them, freak accidents like Minecraft are just that, freak accidents & publishers publish games with record sales every year, especially in games that don't support modding (ie consoles). 
<snip>

We agree on most of your post, but not this. Indie developers are snipping away more and more of the Triple A income. More and more gamers rather buy 3-4 indie titles than a $60 title. The Indie gaming model truly is a disruptive business model for A+ developers and they are contending with some serious competition there.

[motorsep]

Indie developers are snipping away more and more of the Triple A income. More and more gamers rather buy 3-4 indie titles than a $60 title. The Indie gaming model truly is a disruptive business model for A+ developers and they are contending with some serious competition there.

What makes you say that?

It's true that there is a flood of indie games. But to say indies make more money than AAA is absurd! There are a few elite indies, along with accidental hits like MineCraft. 95% of indies don't even break even. Just recently there was a postmortem about one of indie games. Dudes spend $250k on development, had decent visibility, and yet haven't even come close to be broken even after whole year being out in the wild.

I have hands on experience with award winning indie game, which was critically acclaimed, but hasn't sold well at all.

People would still fork over $60 for AAA titles over a few indie games, if that title is good in their eyes. And they will still pick up a few indie tiles, when they are on sales.

It's really, really tough market for indies. In no way it is a disruptive business to AAA.

[The Happy Friar]

We agree on most of your post, but not this. Indie developers are snipping away more and more of the Triple A income. More and more gamers rather buy 3-4 indie titles than a $60 title. The Indie gaming model truly is a disruptive business model for A+ developers and they are contending with some serious competition there.

I buy games I like, irregardless who made them.  I always have.  I had "indie" games in the shareware days and loved them.  I don't pay $60 for a title any more though (which, adjusted to inflation, is dirt cheap), to much risk.  IE can't resell.  I normally don't buy "indie" titles at full price either, I wait for a sale.  Same reason, to much risk.  Most indie games I don't find with the price, just like AAA games.

[BloodRayne]

Indie developers are snipping away more and more of the Triple A income. More and more gamers rather buy 3-4 indie titles than a $60 title. The Indie gaming model truly is a disruptive business model for A+ developers and they are contending with some serious competition there.

What makes you say that?

It's true that there is a flood of indie games. But to say indies make more money than AAA is absurd!
<snip>

I didn't say that, so that's where this discussion ends.

We agree on most of your post, but not this. Indie developers are snipping away more and more of the Triple A income. More and more gamers rather buy 3-4 indie titles than a $60 title. The Indie gaming model truly is a disruptive business model for A+ developers and they are contending with some serious competition there.

I buy games I like, irregardless who made them.  I always have.  I had "indie" games in the shareware days and loved them.  I don't pay $60 for a title any more though (which, adjusted to inflation, is dirt cheap), to much risk.  IE can't resell.  I normally don't buy "indie" titles at full price either, I wait for a sale.  Same reason, to much risk.  Most indie games I don't find with the price, just like AAA games.

I'm making the point that Indie games are competition for triple A developers, and the sales figures are backing up my statements.

[motorsep]

I'm making the point that Indie games are competition for triple A developers, and the sales figures are backing up my statements.

Can we please see those sales figures? (and please, no need to post those few well known indies who broken through in the golden era, which has been well over since ~ 2012)

[BloodRayne]

I'm making the point that Indie games are competition for triple A developers, and the sales figures are backing up my statements.

Can we please see those sales figures? (and please, no need to post those few well known indies who broken through in the golden era, which has been well over since ~ 2012)

See the top 100 sellers in Steam, I assume you have it installed.... 

[motorsep]

You should really do your homework Most if not all of these "indies" are former AAA folks. So technically, those are AAA games with smaller budgets. In that case, it's old AAA competes with new AAA, but not with some garage indie teams that have no budget, etc.

[BloodRayne]

You should really do your homework Most if not all of these "indies" are former AAA folks. So technically, those are AAA games with smaller budgets. In that case, it's old AAA competes with new AAA, but not with some garage indie teams that have no budget, etc.

There is no discussing with you. You just talk around the facts as if they don't exist, that's why I always tire out so quickly. Let's just be active in these forums and not quote each other, ok?

[oneofthe8devilz]

You should really do your homework

[VGames]

That sucker is maxed out!!

[bkt]

See the top 100 sellers in Steam, I assume you have it installed.... 

The top selling game on Steam right now is an indie game.  8 of the top 20 are indie games.  It doesn't matter who made them, former AAA devs or not.  They're independently financed and making their developers a lot of money.  Just because people didn't want to buy steel storm doesn't mean Indie dev isn't viable.

[motorsep]

The top selling game on Steam right now is an indie game.  8 of the top 20 are indie games.  It doesn't matter who made them, former AAA devs or not.  They're independently financed and making their developers a lot of money.  Just because people didn't want to buy steel storm doesn't mean Indie dev isn't viable.

The whole argument was "indies are threat to AAA companies". Epic was an indie, backed up with venture capital. Many of the "indies" today are backed up with venture capital. How does that make them indies?! Sure, they have independent from publisher funding, but it's not coming out of their pocket. Indies came to be from garage "office", funded by their own money. And later everyone who isn't funded by a publisher came to be called "indie", which is incorrect at its core.

When Steel Storm came out, it was in Top 10 too. Doesn't mean it made me a fortune.

[bkt]

I'm making the point that Indie games are competition for triple A developers, and the sales figures are backing up my statements.

It actually looks like Bloodrayne clarified the argument. 

There is no discussing with you. You just talk around the facts as if they don't exist, that's why I always tire out so quickly. Let's just be active in these forums and not quote each other, ok?

Yep.

I actually disagree with BloodRayne's stance that Indie dev's a threat or that they're eating away at AAA's market share.  That could be an interesting conversation to have, but inevitably you would chime in and render the conversation pointless.

Now go ahead and come up with some circular argument to prove me wrong, just don't post it, because I'm not interested in reading it.

However, if anyone else is up for further discussion on Doom, modding (or lack of), I'm all for it.  I'm really excited to play the new game and make levels for it.  Though I'm equally (if not more so) disappointed that I won't be able to make custom content for it.  Why can't we?  That's the discussion to have, especially when other peoples points of view are considered and respected.

[motorsep]

I actually disagree with BloodRayne's stance that Indie dev's a threat or that they're eating away at AAA's market share.  That could be an interesting conversation to have, but inevitably you would chime in and render the conversation pointless.

Of course. Since I have no clue what I am talking about, because you know, I am not an indie developer, you guys keep talking "facts".