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Id Tech 6 (Doom [4]) => id Tech 6 General Talk => Topic started by: motorsep on March 23, 2020, 09:51:11 AM

Title: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on March 23, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
Is it just me or anyone else likes Doom 2016 more than Doom Eternal ?

I like the details and visuals, but level design is meh IMO and the combat/flow is just not that exciting to me.. Maybe I am just done with crazy fast paces shooters where you have to constantly juggle weapons and gadgets..

Doom 2016 felt tighter and better put together IMO. Sure, the visual variety wasn't as diverse as in Doom Eternal, but the story telling and flow was better IMO.

I don't know.. At this point I feel like I should have spent that $64 (yeah, game + tax) on Half-Life: Alyx or even just wait for Cyberpunk 2077.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on March 24, 2020, 12:40:59 AM
I felt that way for the first few levels. I have completed the game a few times now, In my opinion It is a good sequel to 2016 and when I completed it I felt pretty satisfied.

They are tonally different as Doom Eternal does not take itself as seriously as Doom 2016 and I think that feels pretty jarring to some.
I play with the original Doomguy skin and that feels more like I am playing a graphically beautiful brutal doom It suits the aesthetic more :).

The Battlemode is ultimately pretty lacklustre and I don't think it will stand the test of time. I would of preferred just deathmatch instead. The decision to remove snapmap is disappointing  but they hinted at modding in the future as a possibility.

Tl;dr: It grows on you.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on March 24, 2020, 09:18:07 AM
They are tonally different as Doom Eternal does not take itself as seriously as Doom 2016 and I think that feels pretty jarring to some.

That's one of the things I don't like about D:E. It's all over the place, story wise and art wise (although art style is mostly consistent). I feel like they bred Quake 3 and Doom 2 and got D:E.

Tl;dr: It grows on you.

I still play it - gotta justify $60 spending :P But it's not something I am looking forward eagerly to play in my free time.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on March 24, 2020, 01:14:15 PM
The story is interesting because it is  like you said trying to keep consistent with not only the original doom, but also the Quake 3 lore, as far as I can tell, whilst expanding it. What they do poorly is fill the gaps between 2016 and Eternal.

I play with the doomguy skin on and it seems to fit better. I am curious as to what the dlc campaigns will add in future and for me this game has a good level of replay-ability. Be great if it has modding support in future although I own it and console and wouldn't benefit from that.

Triple A Games in my country cost almost double that. I wish eternal only cost $60.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on March 24, 2020, 11:32:00 PM
I'm at the ARC facility to find Hayden and am still disappointed that normal punches don't knock monsters back, let alone injure them (not even the lowest zombies).   The low ammo count bugs me less now that I've upgraded how much I can hold, but it still bugs me.  There's been quite a few times in the past couple maps where I've run out of ammo and had to use the chainsaw to get more. 

Game play wise, I'd say it's closer to the Metroid Prime series gameplay vs Doom 2016: you're encouraged to explore, lots of flying/jumping around, use powerups in various ways to kill monsters, etc.  I wish I had a Wii controller at times.  :)
I love the look of everything in this game over 2016.  I agree the level design isn't as wide open as 2016, I've hit a lot of invisible walls, and some invisible walls that seem to be in place so you can't access areas incorrectly.  :)  I do like the fast travel system when you're at maps end, that's super handy for finding secrets.   The level design does seem to be more Q1 or D1 in mind, you travel to different themed areas.   
I like all of the monsters attacks.  The Hell Knight freaked me out at first, not only does it keep coming, you can blow chunks off and it keeps coming! 

I really hate how the weapon autoswitching works.  Since I run out of ammo so fast I switch weapons when I'm not expecting at times, and I'll point blank a rocket in to a monsters face.  Bad for both of us.
I REALLY REALLY like the level designs that are out to kill you.  I miss that kind of thing, but in respect to making the maps dangerous, not just because of monsters, I feel like they took that idea right from the 90's.

Overall, I'm liking it.  My kids are reallllllllly liking it too.  :)
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on March 24, 2020, 11:36:01 PM
Forgot to comment on the story.  I don't like how nothing is filled in between 2016 & now (unless it's later in the game), I'm not even sure why you're out now vs sealed in hell at the end of the last game.  Besides that, they've done a really good job of showing how the UAC was the most evil corp in existence.  Makes Wayland-Yutani look like Wal-Mart by comparison.  They even have their AI/spokes person giving encouraging words to the survivors, encouraging them to go to Hell & what not.  :)
When I first saw the map on the ship of the infected areas, my first thought was "Corona Virus Map in Doom!"  :D
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on March 25, 2020, 02:13:14 PM
Forgot to comment on the story.  I don't like how nothing is filled in between 2016 & now (unless it's later in the game), I'm not even sure why you're out now vs sealed in hell at the end of the last game.  Besides that, they've done a really good job of showing how the UAC was the most evil corp in existence.  Makes Wayland-Yutani look like Wal-Mart by comparison.  They even have their AI/spokes person giving encouraging words to the survivors, encouraging them to go to Hell & what not.  :)
When I first saw the map on the ship of the infected areas, my first thought was "Corona Virus Map in Doom!"  :D

Word!
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on March 25, 2020, 04:54:57 PM
My youngest son & I have a theory on how Doomguy got out:
After Doom 2016 where you killed the demons on mars & went to hell & back, when Hayden sent you back the demons saw you, thought "oh Shit!" and you killed your way out of Hell, captured that ship, went back to Mars, found out Earth was invaded & went there.

Again, we're not done with the game so maybe it's explained, but that makes sense to us at least.  (Thinking of hordes of Imps running in terror from you is a fun thought).
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on March 26, 2020, 10:51:03 AM
There are some great bits of story in it for you then! But no, what happens in the last game is not touched on at all, except maybe some codex entries regarding what Samuel Hayden got up to back on Earth. Overall when you think of the  story, it gets fairly convoluted but ultimately it's more story then we got from any barring Doom3.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on March 26, 2020, 06:30:32 PM
The more I think about this, the more I think that nobody complained about the lack of explanation for HL1 to HL2, nobody complained Valve retroactively changed Portal's ending via an update to help explain Portal 2.
I still find it a wildly fun game, even with the "how did you get here" answer.


Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on March 28, 2020, 01:35:31 PM
Graphics are beautiful as are the animations, not that it needs to be said as that's a given nowdays, I was really pleased with the photomode allowing you to go in thirdperson mode and even pose your character! Pity any third person animations like glory kills don't let you:(
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 04, 2020, 12:33:54 PM
my son and I were having a ball with the photo mode.
plus I'm starting to have fun with it too.  :p
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on April 04, 2020, 05:02:38 PM
Neat! I am guessing Your playing on pc? How did you go into photomode in the fortress?
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 04, 2020, 07:06:03 PM
that computer shot is just a steam screenshot.
i didn't look in to photomode until I got in the last map, so I don't know if it's possible.  Really disappointed you can't choose the fortress as a map.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 05, 2020, 12:15:16 PM
once you finish the game you get back @ the fortress & can use the mission select to go to any map you missed stuff on.
On the plus side, you end the Wu-Flu.  :)
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on April 06, 2020, 01:32:48 AM
It's good when you unlock everything :) the cheat codes and stuff are fun. when you get them all you can play doom1 on the pc in the room, to play Doom 2 you need to input the code "FLYNNTAGGART"
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 06, 2020, 07:37:18 AM
in case anyone didn't know, Doom 1 & 2 wad's are in "steamapps\common\DOOMEternal\base\classicwads"
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on April 06, 2020, 05:08:30 PM
Well, I am on Khan Maykr level and I rage quit!  ::)

Btw, lore sucks.. As if they are really short on creativity nowadays.. Maker > Maykr.. WTF
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 06, 2020, 05:43:25 PM
I've rage quit 3 times before I finished it.  Go back the next day.  :p
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on April 07, 2020, 11:13:36 AM
I found it relatively hard because I played Ultra violence on my first play thru.
The Makyr I actually didn't have to much trouble with, here's what I did:

1.stay in air as much as possible.this biatch loves to burn the ground.

2.use plasma gun with the heat blast mod ( I had it mastered) when you have charged up the gun by shooting then you can do more damage.this will kill the fuck out of most things. there are three tiers of charge and your guns plasma will turn red when done charging all three.

3. headshot the drones with the machinegun for plasma ammo.

4.use the bfg ammo for basically a free shot, you only get one in that area.

5. The makyr can only be killed by bloodpunch, here's the trick, when she is vulnerable use the DB shotgun grapple hook to zoom up to her and blood punch.

If you try to reach her any other way she often will recover first.

6. the gun called the Unmakyr is made to kill the Makyr. Blame doom 64 for that one ;P

Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on April 07, 2020, 02:03:08 PM
I know all that.. It's just grindy level and grindy way of killing the boss. Sloppy design IMO.

I might just try unlocking Unmakyr and using that on her instead of grinding through that level....
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 07, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
I locked on with my rockets to take her out.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on April 07, 2020, 04:29:07 PM
The rockets do the job nicely.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on April 10, 2020, 08:26:12 PM
Alright, I beat the game  8)

I think they had brain fart designing Icon of Sin combat. I was shocked to find out they didn't have Marauder on the last level  ::)

Out of curiosity I am going to try unlocking Unmakyr (probably need to use cheat codes to not waste time, since I could really use it to play Half-Life Alyx :P )

Btw, while having team pics in the credits is a nice gesture, I really enjoyed Doom 2016 end game credits a lot more.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on April 11, 2020, 03:33:00 AM
Yeah the credits in the last game where great.
The after credits scene is funny tho, you seen it? You can just youtube it.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 11, 2020, 07:43:08 AM
I was bummed the end credits weren't as cool as 2016 too. 

Motorsep, when you use mission select to go back & get the slayer keys you keep all your upgrades & what not. You can't use the cheat discs to get slayer keys though, but depending on the slayer key(s) you missed, the upgraded, heavier weapons will most likely make it really easy to get now.  :)
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 11, 2020, 07:46:23 AM
BTW, I liked the end boss level.  What did you guys think?  I also like it was nice how the game actually seemed to end vs the cliffhanger endings we get so much these days.
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on April 11, 2020, 12:29:07 PM
You can't use the cheat discs to get slayer keys though, but depending on the slayer key(s) you missed, the upgraded, heavier weapons will most likely make it really easy to get now.  :)

That's what I found out last night going through Cultists' Base.. I had sentinel armor enabled and slayer key wasn't there!! Imagine how I felt going back and replaying level yet again, but without cheat code  ::)

So, 4 more sentinel keys to go...
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: motorsep on April 11, 2020, 12:33:27 PM
BTW, I liked the end boss level.  What did you guys think?  I also like it was nice how the game actually seemed to end vs the cliffhanger endings we get so much these days.

I thought it was okay'ish.. I mean, it was better than RAGE's ending :P I think Icon of Sin fight in original (old) Doom was a better boss fight.

I think the cliffhanger is that "NOOOOO!" voice on the Khan Makyr's level after you finished her off. Whoever yelled it out might be the boss of upcoming DLC?
Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: The Happy Friar on April 11, 2020, 03:17:51 PM
I really enjoy the Quake Con & Confetti cheat disks.  Those add a lot of fun to the base game (I signed up for the free Amazon Prime trial just so I could get the Doomicorn skin too).  However, the unlimited ammo really makes the rifle micro-missles & mini-gun turret upgrade shine.  It's like you're just throwing out walls of death.  :)
While I was playing SP I was trying to be a completionist so I got all the Slayer Key's but one on my play through.  Ironically, I forgot to pick up the one I missed after I did the slayer gate. 


Title: Re: Doom Eternal vs Doom 2016
Post by: MooD on April 12, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
BTW, I liked the end boss level.  What did you guys think?  I also like it was nice how the game actually seemed to end vs the cliffhanger endings we get so much these days.

Looked cool as fuck. Was a nightmare to fight but I liked blowing thru the layers. Not looking forward to this game on nightmare and ultra ngl.